The Shot in the Foot Heard ‘Round the World – Geoffrey’s Chat With Vickie: continued/new comment thread

Uncle Volodya says, "You must remember the most important rule of any successful illusion. First, the people must want to believe in it. "

Uncle Volodya says, “You must remember the most important rule of any successful illusion. First, the people must want to believe in it. “

This article is just a stub, to alleviate the loading problems caused by too many comments – not that I’m complaining, because I love gossip – attached to the previous post. But I thought I should add something in the way of a public service. From Fedia Kriukov (thanks, Fedia!!) we received a fascinating clip, I daresay well before most other viewers since it is only now beginning to break big-time on the intertubes. Anyway, here it is again. I love the title: Marionettkiy Maidana – “Puppets of the Maidan”. Very imaginative, le mot juste. The clip records a conversation between Victoria Nuland (U.S. State Department, Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs, as well as the wife of Überconservative right-wing nutjob Robert Kagan) and Geoffrey Pyatt, the United States Ambassador to Ukraine.

To forestall any defense that the recording could be any two people of the correct gender from the region that matches their North American accent, I would point out – courtesy of Patrick Armstrong – that the semi-official response was pretty far from a denial. In fact, the White House immediately blamed Russia, and State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki called it “a new low” for Russia, in what must be the howler of the decade and suggests she has never heard of the NSA and their 24-7 snooping on everyone and everything.

Anyway, enjoy the entertainment, and against the possibility some might have trouble with the North American accent and the speed of the conversation, I have provided a transcript in English.

Nuland: What do you think?

 Pyatt: I think we’re in play. The, uhh…the Klitschko piece is obviously the complicated electron here, uhhh…especially the announcement of him as Deputy Prime Minister..and you’ve seen some of my notes on the troubles in the marriage right now, so we’re trying to get a read really fast on where he is on this stuff. But I think your argument to Ann, which she’ll need to make, I think that’s the next phone call we want to set up, should be exactly the one you made to Ya (??? Yanukovych? Yatsenyuk?) tonight, I’m glad you sort of put him on the spot as to where he fits in this scenario, and I’m very glad he said what he said in response.

 Nuland: Good. So..uhh…I don’t think Klitch should go into the government, I don’t think it’s necessary, I don’t think it’s a good idea.

 Pyatt: Yeah. I mean, I guess…you think…in terms of him not going into the government, just let him sort of stay out and do his political homework and stuff, I’m just thinking, in terms of sort of the process moving ahead, we want to keep the moderate democrats together; the problem is gonna be Tiahnybok and his guys, and…you know, I’m sure that’s part of what Yanukovych is calculating on all of this…I..

Nuland:  I think Yats is the guy who’s got the economic experience, the governing experience, he’s..he’s the guy, you know, what he needs is Klitch and Tiahnybok on the outside, he needs to be talking to them four times a week, you know…I just think Klitch going in, he’s gonna be at that level, working for Yatsenyuk, it’s just not gonna work.

 Pyatt: think that’s right, OK. Good; well, you want us to try to set up a call with him, as your next step?

 Nuland: My understanding from (inaudible, sounds like a name) call that you tell me was that the Big Three were going into their own meeting and that Yats was gonna offer, in that context, a three-way, you know, three-plus-one conversation, or three-plus-two with you. Is that not how you understood it?

 Pyatt: No, I think…I mean, that’s what he proposed, but I think, just knowing the dynamic that’s been with them, where..umm.. Klitschko’s been the top dog, he’s gonna take a while to show up to whatever meeting they’ve got, he’s probably talking to his guys at this point, so I think you reaching out directly to him helps with the personality management among the three, and it gives you also a chance to move fast on all this stuff and put us behind it before they all sit down and he..uh..he explains why he doesn’t like it.

 Nuland: OK, good, I’m happy; why don’t you reach out to him and see if he wants to talk before or after.

 Pyatt: OK, will do; thanks.

 Nuland: OK; I’ve now written…oh, one more wrinkle for you, Jeff…

 Pyatt: Yeah.

 Nuland: Uh…can’t remember if I told you this or if I only told Washington this, that when I talked to Jeff Feltman (Jeffrey Feltman, Undersecretary-General for Political Affairs at the United Nations, working directly for Ban Ki-Moon and appointed by him), this morning, he had a new name, for the UN guy, Robert Serry (a Dutch diplomat who currently serves at the UN as the Special Coordinator for the Middle East Peace Process), did I write you that?

 Pyatt: Yeah. Yeah, I saw that.

 Nuland: He’s now gotten both Serry and Ban Ki-Moon to agree that Serry could come in Monday or Tuesday.

 Pyatt: OK.

 Nuland: So that would be great, I think, to help glue this thing, and have the UN help glue it, and, you know…fuck the EU.

 Pyatt: Oh, exactly, and I think that we’ve gotta do something to make it stick together, because you can be pretty sure that if it does, if it does start to gain altitude, the Russians’ll be working behind the scenes to try to torpedo it, and again, the fact that this is out there right now, I’m still trying to figure out in my mind why Yanukovych did that. But in the meantime, there’s a Party of Regions faction meeting going on right now, and, you know, I’m sure there’s a lively argument going on in that group at this point. But..uh..anyway, we could lend Joey setup on this one if we move fast. So let me work on..let me work on Klitschko, and if you can just keep..I think we want to get somebody with an international personality to come out here and help to midwife this thing..and the other issue is some kind of outreach to Yanukovych, but we can probably regroup on that tomorrow as we see how things start to fall into place.

 Nuland: So on that piece, Jeff, when I wrote the note, Sullivan’s (probably Jake Sullivan, the Vice-President’s National Security Advisor) come back to me VFR, saying you need Biden, and I said probably tomorrow for an attaboy (a gratuitous pat on the back to a subordinate) and to get the deets (details) to stick. If Biden’s willing.

 Pyatt: OK, great, thanks.

I love how they refer to them as “Yats” and “Klitch”, as if they were house cats or something, just the ticket when you are trying to groom new leaders to serve you in a regime-change operation. I’ll bet Yats’s and Klitch’s followers are blown away by the respect in which they are held by those who are pulling their strings. Blown away, too, doubtless, is Angela Merkel, who is not only a big part of the EU that was just told to go fuck itself, but is also the patron of “Klitch” and who was pressing ahead with plans to get him installed as the Ukrainian President, only to find the U.S. State Department is doing an end-run around her and intends that her button-man shall not even have a seat in the government, never mind run it. No, he’s to do his political homework, and report to “Yats” four times a week. Nice work, if you can get it – does that come with a car and driver?

Marx spoke too soon; it is not history, but revolution in Ukraine that repeats itself – first as tragedy, the second time as farce. If Yanukovych cannot parlay this gift into firm reassertion of control over public order in Kiev, he deserves to be overthrown.

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534 Responses to The Shot in the Foot Heard ‘Round the World – Geoffrey’s Chat With Vickie: continued/new comment thread

  1. yalensis says:

    As was prophetically foretold by prescient idiots like me, illegal Ukrainian Orange “government” has appealed to NATO to help them fight against Russia.

    Like, we didn’t see this coming 100 miles away?

    In other words, Yats and Turchynov are employing the “Saakashvili Gambit”. They declare war against Russia. In the expectation (and frantic hope) that NATO will intervene on their side.

    Like Nostradamus predicted several centuries ago: “Ceux-ci Yats et Klich, Ils mangeront leurs propres cravates…”

    • marknesop says:

      What are you talking about – you didn’t even know which Ukrainian cities were in what oblasts! Don’t pretend now that you are a visionary!

      • yalensis says:

        All that was required to predict Maidanuts calling in NATO:

        (1) A rudimentary grasp of geography,
        (2) The IQ of an intelligent amoeba; and
        (3) A crystal ball a minimum of 1 millimeter in diameter!

        • Jen says:

          How about (4) No grasp of recent history in Gruziya and how the US reacted when Saakashvili invaded South Ossetia and Russia immediately sent troops there in 2008.

  2. yalensis says:

    Meanwhile, Donbass is also talking secession. Donetsk city council voted to conduct a referendum about the future of Donbass. The city deputies voted unanimously for the resolution. The referendum will pose the following question:

    “Whether to consider the Russian Federation a strategic partner of Donbass.
    On Saturday, the Russian flag was raised over the cities of Donetsk and Kharkov, not to mention Odessa.

    • yalensis says:

      typo: should be a closing double quote ” after
      “Whether to consider the Russian Federation a strategic partner of Donbass”

      This is good, it’s “creeping” secessionism, which is more effective in the long run than sudden secessionism.

    • kirill says:

      The regime in Kiev is mobilizing the army to stop this. Right sector goons and cannon fodder are already engaged in confrontations. Without Donbass Ukraine is a total loss. And to think that the voice of the people living there does not count. While Shasko Biliy and his goons get NATO approval (i.e. I have not seen any condemnation of the participation of Right Sector in the Kiev regime from NATO).

      • Moscow Exile says:

        STOP PRESS

        Reports are coming in that FIFA is considering debarring Russia from hosting the 2018 World Cup competition.

        So I should worry!

        Can’t stand the game.

        (Actually this imposition of a FIFA ban has been put forward by – you guessed it! – a Guardianista.)

  3. marknesop says:

    Heavy is the head that wears the crown of state. The Yatsinator is informed that his forces are inadequate to take back the Crimea, boo hoo.

    Although riddled with errors – Ukraine does not have any “excellent home-produced tanks” unless the author is talking about T-types produced when Ukraine was still a part of the Soviet Union; their new tanks were made by Poland – and trying its best to find the silver lining (the Russians have the Ukrainian navy “boxed in” is kinder than saying the Ukrainian navy is deserting to the enemy), overall the tone is one of amazed wonder that the armed forces could have deteriorated to this terrible state of readiness in only three days. I mean, just last week everyone was sure they were not only full of piss and vinegar, but that they would have deserted to the Oranges had they been ordered to restore the public peace. Now we learn the military “has made a point of staying out of the internal political conflict in the Ukraine”.

    Obviously written by civilians whose heads would make fine paperweights. To the military is not given the luxury of either opinion or avoidance when it comes to internal political conflict; it is at the disposal of its Commander-In-Chief, and does as he says without comment or analysis. Could it be the military realizes that its Commander-In-Chief is not in fact in Ukraine at all, and the self-raising government in Kiev realizes it would probably not be acknowledged or obeyed if it gave the order to re-take the Crimea?

    “Yuri Lutsenko, an opposition leader, reached out to residents of eastern Ukraine on Saturday who might be watching on television, saying the protesters who had populated the Maidan, or Independence Square, in Kiev had never harbored anger at those in the east.

    “We reach out our hands from Maidan to Donetsk, to Kharkiv, to Dnepropetrovsk and to Simferopol,” he said, speaking in Russian, spoken by many in the eastern part of the country.”

    ‘Pon my soul, that’s somewhat of a different tune than that sung giddily in the Rada of late, when the Russian language had its official status removed and the unibrowed thugs of Svoboda made noises about arrest for anyone overheard speaking it, what? I guess those Ukraine-for-Ukrainians types actually can speak Russian when they find a suitable occasion!!

    • kirill says:

      Reality bites, poor Yats. Ukraine actually has developed good tank models since 1991, namely the Oplot:

      But look where it is produced, in Kharkov, practically on the Russian border. Those damned Russified eastern Ukrainians. Shashko Biliy and the rest of Yats’s crew are good for nothing. Yats should ship himself over to the EU and stay there.

      • marknesop says:

        Yes, you’re right: I forgot the Oplot. I was just looking at the photo in that NYT article, at Yats standing at the lectern, and was struck by his resemblance to Vector, the unlikeable geek in “Despicable Me”, in his Fortress of Vectortude. Except the character of Vector had more hair.

        He doesn’t look much like somebody who is living his dream as the leader of his country he always wanted to be, does he? In fact, he looks like a man struggling to stay ahead of a rolling reality that is about to run him down.

  4. marknesop says:

    Nobody appears to be increasing their overall national military readiness, anyway, which is a good sign so far. But for anyone who was curious as to what China’s position might be, this article is suggestive on top of the recent lawsuit launched against the brand-new self-raising unelected Ukrainian government. That the west auto-recognized in the blink of an eye, not to put too fine a point on it. As well they might, since they probably had a lot to do with its makeup.

    I bet that UN Meeting was a testy exchange. Although full of the usual patriotic blabber, this timeline contains some insights – among them that the Crimean referendum has been pushed forward to March 30th, and an opinion that if Ukraine loses the Crimea it will never forgive the Yatsenyuk government.

    And now I’m off to dinner with our Ukrainian friends. Back later.

  5. Moscow Exile says:

    Letter to one hour ago (11:00 Moscow time, 2nd March, 2014), since deleted.

    Чего же так испугался Крым?
    Официально угрозами, столь сильно напугавшими жителей Крыма от прихода новой власти в Украине, что они аж позвали на помощь Россию, называются три причины:
    1. Русская речь якобы в Украине отныне будет запрещена и попадает под УК.
    2. В Крым якобы едут эшелоны бендеровцев навязывать свои фашисткие порядки.
    3. Верховная Рада Украины якобы первым делом отменила закон, который расширял полномочия русского языка в государстве.

    Поскольку большинством пророссийских граждан в Украине, а также россиянами, эти вещи воспринимаются как свершившийся факт, я решил пролить на них свет, и показать, что они на самом деле не соответствуют действительности.

    1. Речь Тягнибока, в которой он выступает за запрет русского языка со сцены Майдана и обещает за русскую речь уголовную ответственность.
    Хотите — ищите, но вы прямую речь нигде не найдете, потому что ее и не было. Информация эта пошла из сюжета телеканала “Россия”, где просто об этом упомянули, не дав ни одного синхрона (когда фоном показывают Тягнибока, он говорит на совершенно другую тему). А в качестве доказательства его слов привели –… чей–то комментарий в ЖЖ (!!!). На самом деле, на сцену Майдана в любое время суток направлены одновременно десятки камер, самых разных организаций и каналов, и хотя бы одна из них его речь зафиксировала.
    Вывод: информация — фейк.

    2. Массово стекающиеся бЕндеровцы на спецпоездах в Крым.
    Источник этой утки — проянуковичевский канал 112, интервью с якобы “координатором Правого Сектора” по имени Игорь Мосийчук.
    Это совершенно не так.
    Во–первых. Этот человек действительно националист, но он 2.5 года провел в СИЗО, и освободился ровно 24 февраля 2014 г. по амнистии — ровно за ДВА ЧАСА до эфира (т.е. после “звонка” этот человек тут же поскакал давать интервью телеканалу 112).
    Но поскольку Правый Сектор был создан только в ноябре 2013–го, Мосийчук за столь короткие минуты после освобождения ну никак не мог успеть ни вступить в организацию (а упоминаний, что он является ее членом нигде нет и по сей день!), ни изучить ее устав. Поэтому он тем более не имел никакого морального права говорить от имени Правого Сектора. Все что нам было представлено — личная позиция какого–то националиста, не имеющего отношения к Правому Сектору.
    Во–вторых, он заявил в этом интервью, что тот “Поезд Дружбы” МОЖЕТ быть сформирован ЛИШЬ В ТОМ СЛУЧАЕ, если Крым НАЧНЕТ отделение от Украины. Но крымчане заговорили о выходе из состава Украины потому, что якобы такие поезда УЖЕ выехали к ним, и, мол, именно этот факт и послужил для призывов о военной помощи к России. Причину–следствие улавливаете?
    Вывод: перекрученные слова человека, который, к тому же, не имеет никакого отношения к Правому Сектору.

    3. Отмена обновленной Радой известного “Закона о языках”, в котором русский язык якобы имел широкие полномочия.
    Во–первых, вам известно, что этот закон, принятый еще в 2012–м году, на самом деле по причине его несовершенства не проработал ни одного дня?
    Вам известно, что он оказался элементом предвыборной программы, и по факту не представлял из себя вообще ничего, что было всеми признано еще в год его принятия?
    Во–вторых, более того, увидев, что отмена этого пустого закона вызвала столь резкий резонанс в русскоязычном обществе, новоявленный и.о. Президента Украины наложил ВЕТО на решение Верховной Рады Украины об отмене этого закона. Т.е. “Закон о языках” остался в силе.
    Вывод: информация о том, что русский язык законодательно подвергся ущемлению в Украине (или что такое планируется), является ложью.

    Поскольку эти три пункта называются главными угрозами для населения Крыма, то подобная подтасовка фактов и откровенная ложь в СМИ наталкивает лишь на один вывод:
    все эти притянутые за уши мифические угрозы для русскоязычного населения Украины являются ни чем иным, как банальным оправданием военного вторжения России на территорию Украины.


    What is the Crimea so scared of?

    Officially, of threats; so much afraid are Crimean residents of the arrival of a new government in the Ukraine that they have already called on Russia for help, giving three reasons for doing so:

    1. The Russian language in the Ukraine is now alleged to have been prohibited under the Criminal Code.
    2 . Towards the Crimea there are allegedly arriving by train squads of Banderovtsy in order impose their fascist rule there.
    3 . The Ukrainian Supreme Rada has, allegedly, as its first act repealed that law which was to extend the powers of the Russian language in the state.

    Insofar as the majority of the pro-Russian citizens in the Ukraine, as well as the Russians themselves, have perceived these matters as being fait accompli, I have decided to shed some light on them and show that they really are not true.

    1. Tyahnibok’s speech, in which he calls for a ban of the Russian language from a stage on the Maidan, promising to criminalize the speaking of Russian.

    If you wish, seek it out: you will, however, not find this speech anywhere – because it never existed. This information came from the TV channel “Rossiya”, which simply spoke of the content of the speech, without transmitting the words spoken (when in the background to the news broadcast Tyahnibok was shown speaking, he was talking about a completely different subject). And using these words of his, many comments have appeared on Live Journal (!!!). In fact, the Maidan stage was at the time covered by dozens of cameras operating for a variety of organizations and channels, yet not one of them has recorded this speech .

    Conclusion: false information.

    2 . Banderovtsy are flocking in droves by train to the Crimea.

    Source of this canard – a pro-Yanukovich channel 112 interview with an alleged “Right Sector coordinator” named Igor Mosiychuk.

    This is absolutely untrue.

    Firstly: although this man really is a nationalist, he spent 2.5 years in prison and was released exactly on 24 February 2014 under an amnesty – just TWO HOURS before the broadcast (i.e., after having been given a call, this man immediately jumped to give an interview to 112).

    However, since the Right Sector was established in November 2013, Mosiychuk just would not have been able to join this organization (and may I remind you that to this day there is no mention of his ever being a member of it!) in such a short time following his release, nor to study its aims. He therefore had no right whatsoever to speak on behalf of the Right Sector. All that was presented to us was the position taken by some nationalist person who has nothing to do with the Right Sector.

    Secondly: he said in the interview that a “Friendship Train” COULD be formed ONLY IN THE CASE of the Crimea BEGINNING to secede from the Ukraine. However, Crimeans have been talking about secession from the Ukraine because it is alleged that such trains have ALREADY already left and, they say, this fact has given them reason to call on Russia for military aid. Cause following effect?

    Conclusion: the twisted words of a man who, moreover, has no relation to the Right Sector.

    3. The cancellation of a modification to the well-known Rada “Law on language”, in which the Russian language would, allegedly, have had widened authority.

    Firstly, you do realize that that “Law on language”, which was passed in 2012, has, because of its imperfections, not been implemented for a single day?

    You do realize that it was part of an election program and, in fact, there was nothing at all in the legislation about it having to be accepted by everyone as soon as the bill had been passed.

    Secondly: having seen, moreover, that amendments to this ineffective law had caused such a sharp resonance in the Russian-speaking community, the newly-acting President of the Ukraine VETOED the decision of the Ukraine Supreme Rada of Ukraine on the amendment, namely the “Language Law” remains in force as it is.

    Conclusion: The information that the Russian language has undergone infringements according to Ukrainian law (or that such infringements are planned to take place) is a lie.

    Since these three points are labelled as being fundamental threats to the population of the Crimea, and there is a similar manipulation of facts and outright lies in the media, one is forced to reach only one conclusion:

    All these far-fetched mythical threats to the Russian-speaking population of the Ukraine are no more than a banal excuse for Russian military incursion into Ukrainian territory.

    End of translation

    • Al says:

      I raise you by this:

      The ex-Israeli soldier who led a Kiev fighting unit
      ‘Delta’ has headed ‘the Blue Helmets of Maidan’ of 40 men and women – including several IDF veterans – in violent clashes with government forces.

      There’s nothing like a good propaganda war! It looks like Russia has learned some lessons for once

    • marknesop says:

      That might all be true. I did not see Tiahnybok’s speech myself, and only saw reports on what he was supposed to have said. However, now that questions have been raised as to the new government’s legitimacy it is clearly the responsibility of free peoples to refuse to obey it. Who taught us that? The new government – it’s how they came to power.

  6. yalensis says:

    This commenter on Guardian named “barnasha” (1-MAR, 9:38 AM) posted an intelligent analysis of why Yanukovych so-called “impeachment” was illegal:

    Crimea recognizes Yanukovych as the legitimate president. There is no legitimate authority that could declare war against Russia.
    But let’s examine the issue of the legitimacy of power in Ukraine
    So, the Ukraine Constitution clearly describes the mechanism of impeachment. There are 450 deputies in Ruda. Constitutional majority is 338 MPs.
    Now perform the analysis :
    The President according to Constitution can be removed from office ONLY by impeachment . Nevertheless crime he committed any other way is a violation of the basic law . Only impeachment or nothing.
    The steps for impeachment:
    1. At least 226 MPs , should initiate the creation of a special investigative commission composed of special prosecutor and special investigators. That commision should investigate the president actions.
    2. The results of the investigation submitted to Rada for the study. Then 300 deputies must vote for the prosecution of the president.
    3. Start checking the case by the Constitutional Court of Ukraine and receiving his conclusions regarding compliance with the constitutional procedure of investigation and the impeachment proceedings.
    4. The Supreme Court makes a determination that the alleged acts of Ukraine President contain elements of treason or other the crime.
    5. Finally, at LEAST 338 MPs (3/4) can vote to impeach the president and remove him from power .

    How many of these positions were observed in the last impeachment in Rada? NONE. (Only 328 votes were cast for Yanukovych dismissal including those who were beaten or tied and whose cards were used for voting )
    NONE is enough for US and EU to recognize new government. But that doesn’t mean Yanukovich is not official president of state.

    In conclusion: Yanukovych is still the legtimate President of Ukraine.
    Whether Maidanuts like it or not.

    • yalensis says:

      P.S. Natalie already made a lot of these points in her blog. But word is getting out…

      These legal points can form a solid basis if the case ever makes it to international court.
      I have suggested that Russia herself convene an international court, as an alternative to the Hague, which has been long discredited.

      • Al says:

        Maybe the Russians brought these points up at the UN meeting? It would be remiss of them not to have done so.

        • yalensis says:

          I would hope they did. Does anybody have a transcript of the meeting?

          • Al says:

            I hope so, but if it was in ‘closed session’ I think that means all communications apart from anodyne or agreed press releases are kept secret. Any hackers out there got it? 😉

            This is all there is on the open session on the 1st of March where everyone and their cat is invited:


            This is the report about the meeting on the 28th which was a “…closed-door consultations at the request of the Permanent Mission of Ukraine to the UN..”


            I really do find it hilarious how the US and fellow cat walkers are squealing about supporting Ukraine’s territorial integrity. I guess they only do that for their favorites, but they’ve already prized open the lid of Pandora’s Box with their fat little fingers 15 years ago. Even after slapped up Sakaashvili in 2008 using the same arguments, I fear that this will be one of the recurring themes for the future, secession of territories from sovereign states and their recognition by other sovereign states. Maybe after all, the joke is on the West as they have sown and spread the seeds of balkanization.

            On the plus side, isn’t the idea of a central government rather passe? In an age of almost instant communications and the Internet, it proves that decentralization is not only a viable option, but it is a democratizing force, something the Center hates, another underlying reason why ‘mastery of the internet’ is such an obsession – it’s just digital kompromat to keep the status quo. Fascinating indeed.

            • marknesop says:

              The west indeed only stresses that for its favourites; or, more accurately, for nations in which it hopes to first introduce regime change until it has a government it likes, then to incorporate through association, EU expansion and NATO membership. In membership situations border disputes cause problems, which is why the west doesn’t like partition unless it is the authority initiating it. For example, if there now ends up being two nations, both of which call themselves Ukraine, further advancement down the EU membership path is pointless. It’s also why Saakashvili made his ill-fated lunge at Tshkinvali, in an attempt to restore territorial integrity by force. It would only have had to endure until NATO membership could be rushed through, and then an attack on Georgia would have been an attack on NATO.

  7. Al says:

    On Syria and stuff by Peter Oborne (Telegraph). V. interesting:

    West Can Get Rid of Assad or Fight al-Qaeda, But Can’t Do Both

    I am always suspicious when I see the word ‘trust’ and also of anyone who claims to be an ex-spook (as in the story above) – rather like ‘ex-ambassadors’ who always seem to be available to media organizations to give the unvarnished version of government policy that dare not speak its name. If anything, he could well represent intelligence services unofficial link with such ‘enemies’. Could no find the link to the supposed US file on Saudi mega naughtiness either. It would have been interesting to read to see if it was propaganda with a grain of truth or not.

  8. Moscow Exile says:

    A history lesson or Soviet/Russian propaganda?

    To this day, many Ukrainians make no secret of their admiration of Bandera.

    The UPA flag has also made its appearance here in Moscow – amongst the Navalny mob and at Bolotnaya.

    • yalensis says:

      Today in Moscow a small group of around 50 “Bolotnaya” types tried to march to Manezh chanting pro-Orange and anti-war slogans. The Navalnyites will soon learn that they enjoy very tiny levels of support in their support for Orange Maidan. Vast majority of Russians will go all patriotic, just like they did in August 2008.

      Police forced pacifist protesters to go home, since they had no permit.

      • kirill says:

        The horror! Will of the people suppressed! Putin is a tyrant!

        • Al says:

          The will of (half) the people can rise again, with viagra! Some people think this is Navalny, but that would mostly be the other half. In case people don’t get it, I’m calling Navalny a giant dick.

          • Moscow Exile says:

            Navalny is under house arrest at the moment and he’s not allowed to blog – more’s the pity, because he could have organized a counter-protest with all his hard men that are on tenterhooks waiting for his call to overthrow the regime.

  9. yalensis says:

    Illegal putsch government in Ukraine has declared general mobilization of army to counter Russian threat. Key players here are Turchynov and Parubij (Secretary of National Security and Defense – he has been in office approximately one week).

    But wait, there’s more!
    Batkivshchina (=Yulia’s party) deputy Grigorij Nemyra is opposed to martial law and mobilization, fearing that it will lead to a postponement of general elections.

    Nemyra has a really good point that people didn’t really think about before. Turchynov, Yats, & Company are just supposed to be a care-taker government, EU slid them into power in Kiev just to hold down the fort until elections in late May. At that time, people like Yulia might get a crack at coming back into office. Like, life offered these battered dinosaurs a second chance at happiness.

    However, if Ukraine is in a state of war and mobilizaiton, then elections are impossible, and Turchynov/Yats get to stay in office longer, as “El Presidente” + Henchman. And indefinite postponement of elections.

    So, ironically, this war stuff benefits them too.

    • marknesop says:

      Even more ironically, the only one who looks likely to come out of this debacle with relatively clean hands is also the most popular – the German Candidate, whose party got no portfolios in the new government and has been conspicuous by his absence from the public eye since. And he is supposed to be ineligible to run because of his residency issues, by whatever version of the constitution his backers choose to put forward, unless they rewrite it.

    • yalensis says:

      This is excellent news. It was also a really good move to give the Crimean Deputy P.M. post to a Tatar guy (I assume he is Tatar or at least half-Tatar), Rustam Temirgaliev.
      Crimean Russians are not making the same mistake as Oranges, they are being inclusive, this is excellent strategy:

      The local government, Temirgaliev went on, will promise the ethnic Crimean Tatar minority a place in Crimea’s Supreme Council, adding that funding for programs of resettlement and reintegration of those deported during the Stalin era will be plentiful. The Crimean Tatars have been supporting the self-proclaimed authorities in Kiev.

      Hopefully, Rustam can win most of the Tatars away from the Oranges by promising them political inclusion and financial incentives.

    • Al says:

      Let’s not beat about the bush just call it by its real name, a ‘Reverse Yanukovich’. It’s not actually used ice skating, but its definition should be something like:

      Reverse Yanukovich
      Def: Action of self-sabotage through hubris.

      Def: The inability to act decisively due to fundamental divisions.

      Def: Action of claiming democratic authority in violation of the constitution.

      Def: The cause of back pain through walking in high heels whilst in prison.

      Anyone got some more ideas? It could be the start of a new Ukranian political dictionary.

    • marknesop says:

      AP said this would happen. Oh, except he said it would go the other way.

      • Al says:

        That would be ‘bubblewrAP’ no? I liked (most) of his comments too, but throwing a tantrum and accusing everyone else of being in a bubble because they didn’t agree with his point of view is simply well beyond the shtetl.

        • Moscow Exile says:

          I believe it was he on another blog (can’t remember where now) that wrote today that he has lived for 10 years in Western Ukraine with his Russian wife, who is apolitical and lacks any self identification, as do, in his opinion Ukrainians. Yet she has changed in the light of present events, he adds, saying that she would be first to hurl a Molotov cocktail at any truckload of Russian soldiers that came near her.

          • patient observer says:

            I can imagine the after-dinner conversation: “AP get off that stupid blog and do some work around here! I hope some Russian soldiers come by and rip out that internet. If they won’t do it by god I’ll throw a Molotov cocktail at them!”

  10. Al says:

    Is this the beginning of an Greenwald – Ames bitchfight?

    Ames’s new piece is in the first link. He is quite an excitable chap.

    • marknesop says:

      Well. If that had been me who wrote the piece attacking Greenwald (well, Omidyar, but by extension Greenwald as well), I would at this moment be crying into my pillow with humiliation at having received such a thorough public dressing-down. And it brings out a point I had never even considered, and which I bet rarely occurs to many of us – just because you despise the source does not mean every reporter who works there is on the take or shares the same opinion. So long as they have the journalistic freedom to report what they see as they believe they see it, independent of editorial pressure, there’s not much more we can ask. Which allows me to like The Guardian – which I had until this minute loathed – because it employs several reporters whose work I like and admire, Greenwald being one of them.

      As a reporter with a knack for making epiphanies out of concepts, Greenwald is hard to beat, and he is definitely one of the foremost journalists of our time. Ames’ style is always the same, over-the-top outrage and profane ridicule, which can be very enjoyable and effective when employed against someone you dislike anyway; for example, I’d love to see him take Grampy McCain apart. But Greenwald is out of his league, and I think this exchange highlights that.

  11. yalensis says:

    Here is some news about Ukrainian Defense Ministry in crisis. The Man With a Plan = Parubij, the new “Defense Minister” of the illegal Uktainian putsch government.

    Yesterday Parubij worked out a 7-point plan for Uktainian defense against “Russian aggression”. Of which Point #2 is secret and not subject to publication. The other 6 points include general mobilization, appealing to signors of Budapesht Conferece, yada yada.

    Three guesses what the “secret point” is. Maybe something that rhymes with “Plato” ?

    P.S. above news is so-o-o-o 10 minutes ago, and probably superceded by later news from past 10 minutes:

    (1) Ukrainian troops in Crimea deserting in droves and going over to Russian side; and
    (2) Parubij himself admitting to USA that Ukraine is too weak to wage war against Russia. “Pomohi-i-i-i-i-i” !

  12. Fern says:

    Earlier, I thought I’d mis-heard this figure or the news-reader had mis-spoken but I see it’s now being officially reported that 675,000 Ukrainians have travelled to Russia over the last few weeks. Can such a huge number possibly be right? Paging Moscow Exile, Moscow Exile to the front desk, please. Does that stack up with what you’re seeing and hearing?

    • Moscow Exile says:

      In the previous thread I posted a comment made by a Russian blogger about 2 weeks ago (I think) that according to official immigration stats., during the last quarter there had been a threefold increase in immigration from the Ukraine to Russia. At first he thought it was seasonal – New Year and all that – but I think he mentioned that the increase continued to soar after the festive season. There was also a report in one of the Moscow papers that trains arriving here from Lvov hadn’t an empty berth on board. That appeared after the governor of Lvov oblast had been forcibly ousted.

      I’ve been trying to follow that up about the trains, but on the last occasions that I travelled back to Moscow from the Ukraine (from Odessa and from Evpatoria) the train carriages were empty (we had a whole sleeping carriage to ourselves last time, which was great because the guard kindly allowed me to sleep in another compartment away from the madhouse of my three children and my wife), apart from the few “platskart” ones, which were packed – mostly with young backpackers.

      The reason for this is that domestic flights to the Black Sea coast (a 24 hour journey by train) are now much cheaper.

      • Moscow Exile says:

        Украинцы бегут в Россию. В Федеральной миграционной службе говорят о резком увеличении количества украинцев, которые просят предоставить им убежище в РФ. За две недели около 143 тысяч граждан Украины обратились в российские ведомства с такой просьбой. В основном это жители приграничных районов.

        [Ukrainians are fleeing to Russia. The Federal Migration Service has said there has been a sharp increase in the number of Ukrainians who have asked that they be granted asylum in Russia. For a fortnight now, about 143 thousand Ukraine citizens have appealed to the Russian authorities with such a request. These have been mainly residents of the border areas.]

        See: Украинцы эмигрируют в Россию

        [Ukrainians emigrating to Russia]

        I don’t know who publishes this paper. Is it a sister rag to Moscow times, I wonder? The federal migration service mentioned in the article must be that of Russia. What does the Ukrainian migration service have to say about this flight to Mordor?

    • marknesop says:

      The new political masters of Kiev may as well title their political manifesto, “How To Shit The Bed”.

  13. Al says:

    Apparently there is talk of throwing Russia out of the G8.

    Here are the current members:


    No India, No China, No Brazil, No Indonesia etc. The G8, like NATO is an irrelevance to the 21st century, like an old boy’s club, no ladies admitted, just bring your own oil.

    Poor old NATO and Europe. This rather throws a spanner in the works. The US was ‘pivoting’ to Asia, saving money by drawing down in Europe, the rest of the European countries have been cutting their defense spending and the industry is now going in to a trough. Only the UK and France (40 odd % for Europe) still spend the demanded 2% GDP on defense with still 60% of budget cuts for the rest of the UK to go.

    • kirill says:

      Since this club is composed of Russia’s enemies there is no point being part of it. It will have zero impact on Russia’s economy and power. But the G7 wankers can then feel all warm fuzzy about getting rid of the big bad Russian bear.

    • marknesop says:

      Putin is well-known to prefer the looser atmosphere of the G20, and I doubt he would clench his tiny fists in a spasm of impotent rage at being booted out of the G8. Besides, the notion has lost much of its sting since the talking heads of the west regularly invoke it for literally everything – it wasn’t that long ago that Swedish Skitstövel Anders Aslund wanted Russia kicked out of the G8 because Putin boycotted the G8 Summit at Camp David. Actually, he just sent Medvedev, but that was apparently a terrible insult, not the done thing at all. Since nowadays, under the current conservative government, Canada looks constantly for things that will (a) please the United States, (b) pander to the Canadian business elite which would like the two of us to merge and be one big fat rich country, (c) please the United States, and (d) please the United States, Canada was first off the mark to announce it would not appear at the upcoming G8 Summit at Sochi, just like we were first to announce the suspension of funding to Hamas when it won a democratic election in the Palestinian Territories in 2006. Canada likes to be first in things it knows will win American approval so that it can collect its public pat on the head, and for his part Putin is normally pretty good about not pointing out what a lapdog Canada is officially.

      As I have said before several times, I would make a lousy leader for Russia, because I am emotional and sensitive to insult while Putin appears to have no capacity for either, at least in the political arena. I would be tempted to point out, as I did in this article, that if the G20 kicked out the G8 the latter would be adrift in a sea of debt, highlight the hypocrisy of boycotting the G8 Summit now over something as transparently stupid as this after having thrown a hissy fit over Putin’s sending his Prime Minister in his place at Camp David, and then in a paroxysm of temper withdrawing from every world institution shared with the western democracies except for the UN, and that only so I could veto their asses, by which point I would be spasmodically jerking my extended middle finger up and down in their startled faces. Whew! I need to go lay down for a minute.

      • Ilya says:

        I couldn’t agree more with your assessment of Canada being America’s hat. The Conservative government is an embarrassment. In addition to being a eunuch, Harper’s please-America-at-all-costs approach even had him, incredibly, performing a self-imposed Walk to Canossa by way of Jerusalem. Other-worldly.

  14. kirill says:

    The above blog has interesting analysis. I believe it is the Venik who had very good blogs in the past.

    • Al says:

      True, but a bit excitable and to be taken now and then with a pinch of salt (i.e. he uncritically claimed large numbers of NATO aircraft had been downed in 1999 over Serbia). Thanks for bringing him back to attention.

      • patient observer says:

        Venik did provide data supporting his claims although some of his numbers seems a little too high. But there is no dispute that Serbia shot down at least one stealth aircraft and likely inflicted damage on at least two others. The aluminum barn door (on radar) of other NATO aircraft would be comparatively easy to target if they came within missile range.

        It can be argued that non-stealth aircraft were protected by accompanying electronics warfare (EW) aircraft which raises an interesting question – is a stealth aircraft going against modern Russian anti-aircraft systems (way beyond what Serbia was able tinker together) in greater danger due to the lack of EW countermeasures (they would not be stealth otherwise) than conventional aircraft with EW countermeasures?

        • Al says:

          As far as I understand it, Russia is rolling out its S-400s that are apparently effective against stealth and stand off weapons, though stealth is no longer so cracked up to be what it is claimed, rather now touted as ‘low-observable’ day-one weapon to kick down the door and then let the conventional types do the rest more cheaply. It is much easier and cheaper to develop countermeasures than provide new stealth paint that is durable, cheap, not time consuming yet easy to apply. Even the F117s were supposed to have special routing to avoid certain types of radar (X-band methinks) but NATO got so arrogant that they flew them in the same air corridors over and over again, one reason why that hero Serb (of hungarian origin) managed to bring one down.

          There are also passive defense systems that detect the ‘hole’ in the electro-magnetic background that low-observable aircraft make and cue weapons close enough to the target so that they can pick up their infra-red or optical signature. The US is in the process of rolling out such a system to detect cruise missile attacks against it.

          Part of dealing with tough air defenses is the development of stand-off weapons that can be launched well over 100kms away and minature bombs (SDB Small Diameter Bombs) that allow one aircraft to destroy many more targets coupled with SFW (Sensor Fused Weapons) such as the CBU-97 & 105 that are employed by the USA who claim that they are not cluster bombs (which are illegal in over 110 countries) and have sold them for export. Add the redefinition of cluster bomb by the US to their redefinition of upgrade, as I mentioned earlier with regards to US B-61 nukes that the US will turn from dumb bombs to long range stand off nuclear strike weapons. As much as the US squeals about agreements being broken, this one is a biggie.

          The West also uses massive numbers of Minature Air Launched Decoys (MALDs) to saturate air defense systems to try and soak up missile stocks. It worked in I-raq, but not in Serbia. Also the report on the Israeli raid on Assad’s so-called reactor is claimed to have hacked local air defense computers.

          Re: Veniks 1999 claims, I should have said rather he should have erred on the side of caution rather than ‘uncritical’, which I admit is not a fair comment to make considering how difficult it is to confirm all details, particularly in war time. I should have added that quite a number of UAV’s were shot down by helicopter’s flying alongside, not to mention some NATO aircraft made it back to base heavily damaged and were quietly written off.

          OTOH, NATO claimed huge numbers of tanks, artillery and aircraft destroyed but found very, very few once the JA let NATO ground forces enter Kosovo. V. good use of Maskirovka.

        • marknesop says:

          All stealth designs thus far have concentrated on reducing the echo while the aircraft is closing for the attack. None of them are particularly stealthy in the quartering or headed-away view, which presupposes the success of their attack because if it was not they display their biggest target profile when they are running for the hills. And it is ridiculous to try and design a multirole stealth aircraft (like the F-35) because the reduced profile will only protect you for a limited time and eventually sheer power will burn through it. Targeting and homing radars are not fooled by stealth, so the technology is really only useful for aircraft employed as bombers, in the hope they can get over the target and drop their loads without being detected. After that all bets are off.

        • patient observer says:

          Thanks AI and Mark for the analysis. After reading various Australia Air power articles, plus statements from the designer of the F-16 (so he says anyway) on the fatally flawed F-35, the stealth wunderweapon of the Reagan-era military fantasy world is being revealed as simply another incremental advancement.

    • hoct says:

      Terrible blog. Something La Russophobe would write about the Russians. The Ukrainians are a good Slav people, not that dissimilar from the Russians. If you like the Russians you have to like the Ukrainians, it’s as simple as that. And if they do happen believe the pig is a sacred animal — well isn’t it?

      • Moscow Exile says:

        Yep! Like I said before, I’m partial to salo and I always like pork: always tender, easy and quick to cook. Wild boar flesh is good as well. Used to eat it in Germany but never seen it on sale here, although I know a few who go wild boar hunting. One of the very few things I miss in Russia is bacon – smoked back bacon. Oh yes! And kippers.

      • marknesop says:

        Of course it is, for the delicious meat it provides. I still have a magazine kicking around the place somewhere whose special feature concentrated on using every part of the wonderful pig so that nothing was wasted, and some of its recipes for ham and barbecue cuts were so mouth-watering you could have eaten them right off the page. And baby pigs are the cutest animals of all the animal kingdom, I think.

    • cartman says:

      I seem to have been banned from viewing lj. I have never had an account with them, which is weird. Also, my Forbes account was hacked. I don’t post or have an account with Gruaniad, though I did use to give lots of recommendations to some posts when it was easier to mess with. I think I will limit my activity to Mark’s blog, since he doesn’t seem interested in any of my personal information.

      • marknesop says:

        That is exactly the impression I wished to create; by week 2 I had already squeezed you dry of all your personal information, and now I am working on your relatives in Kenosha.

        Really, I did not mean to create an impression of disinterest, per se, and anytime you are feeling a little low and would like to share your personal life with me, you will find me a sympathetic listener. ‘Cause that’s just the way I roll.

  15. Al says:

    A comment by rollercoasteryouth to one of the Guardian pieces:
    “PUSSY RIOT better keep out of this. Again the use of the balaclava seems very in this year.

    We need more jokes. Failing that, how about some fun tabloid headlines? Me first:
    ‘What’s the Palava in Balaclava?’

  16. Moscow Exile says:

    27,000 demonstrate in Moscow in support of government Ukraine policy

    What a pity Navalny is under house arrest and couldn’t lead a counter march with his massed troops who have been waiting for his call!

  17. Al says:

    More Guardian comment ribaldry:

    Ukraine: what will happen now?

    Currently there are six cosmonauts occupying the International Space Station: three Russians, two Americans, and a Japanese. The Commander is Russian but — coincidence — was born in Simferopol, Crimea, Ukraine.

    Imminent Breaking News? — First ever punch-up in outer space

    A point I’d like to make. WTF are the Germans doing? In recent months we’ve been hearing about Germany wanting to swing its big salty balls in the foreign policy arena, selling subs and tanks to the Saudis etc. but they appear to have gone Tonto and retreated behind their more belligerent partners. This is Germany who spends well below the 2% GDP NATO minimum on defense and is in the process of cancelling Tranche 3b of 37 Eurofighters and may well be sued by its industrial partners.

    Or is this Putin’s plan: He’ll work out a deal with the Germans (he who haveth the money, holdeth the gonads) and give them some kudos but still be able to slap the other ones in the face? Klitschko back as PM but kept on the straight and narrow and far away from the americans and their cat handlers?

  18. yalensis says:

    Another major defection:

    Yesterday, Turchynov (President of the illegal putschist government in Kiev) appointed Admiral Denis Berezovsky as chief of Ukrainian Navy.

    But that was so-o-o-o-o yesterday.

    Today we learn, and even BBC confirms, that Berezovsky just defected over to the pro-Russian side . Admiral Berezovsky just swore allegiance to the new pro-Russian government of Crimea and pledged to “protect the people of Crimea”.

    • yalensis says:

      Here is video of Berezovsky’s defection:

      • yalensis says:

        Just to be clear: Berezovsky is swearing an oath of loyalty to the new Crimean government, and to the hero-city of Sebastopol:

        “I, Berezovsky Denys Valentynovych, pledge allegiance to the residents of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea and the hero city of Sevastopol. I vow to strictly follow orders from the commander-in-chief of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea and hero city of Sevastopol, as well as orders by military commanders appointed by them, demands placed by the military code. I vow to fulfil my military duty properly and bravely defend the life and property of the people of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea and the city of Sevastopol.”

      • Moscow Exile says:

        If “Yats” gets the help he desires off NATO, do you think he will have Admiral Berezovsky hanged off the highest yardarm in the fleet?

        • yalensis says:

          I imagine he would have to. From NATO’s POV, Berezovsky is a damned pirate. So, it would go something like this:

  19. yalensis says:

    Illegal putsch government in Kiev yesterday announced general mobilization of entire military-appropriate Ukrainian population; they are supposed to show up at recruitment centers to report for duty.

    Today was first full day of full mobilization. Unfortunately for Kiev, only like something like 1.5% of the people who were supposed to report for duty, actually reported for duty.

    One officer at a military center in Kiev told reporters sadly that only a handful of people are showing up, and when he tries to call people who are on the list, to ask where the heck they are, either nobody answers the phone; or “just some women answer the phone, and tell us that nobody is home.”

    • patient observer says:

      AP presented seemingly significant data regarding public opinion showing deep support for “his” side yet in reality if any support existed it was not deep nor widespread. Setting aside obvious issues with AP’s objectivity and agenda (hidden for sure) how could his public opinion data been so utterly wrong in predicting how people would respond? Was it sample selection, poorly framed questions or what? Or are opinion polls simply unable to capture people’s true feelings? Or perhaps people do not even know their true feelings until bumping into reality (this is my guess).

      The Russian seemed far more aware of the true situation on the ground thus were calm and collected and simply disregarded the Western provocations, hoopla and teeth gnashing. I had confidence that Russia had the West right where they wanted them but frankly it was not founded on anything other than past successes (especially Syria), Putin’s leadership and the Russian military and intelligence organizations.

      I realize that the situation is fluid and crazies in the West can still do something stupid (again) but to date the Russians have adroitly outmaneuvered the West while showing Nuland and company to be as foolish as they sounded. The nuance I am trying to express is that perhaps Russia had it figured out from the beginning versus reacting to each Western move. If the former, the West will continue to make increasingly desperate and futile attacks on Russia (if the later then all bets are off). The monolithic West will unravel and the world can breath easier. The US population can wake up from its induced coma and begin building a society free of the transnational meddlers (my Sunday afternoon dream anyway).

      • kirill says:

        The protests in Kiev were evidence of the lack of support for the Orangists and Banderites. If the anti-Yanuk parties had massive popular support, then there would have been protests all over the country. This is not some minor detail to be left out of any serious narrative. With widespread support there would have been millions of protestors and not 100,000 shipped to one location (Maidan) from primarily western Ukraine (this shipping of people was quite apparent, they came by the trainload and busload). People would not all travel to Kiev to protest since it really is too much bother and even pointless when you live far away.

        So the protest in Kiev was scraped together with a lot of effort. The real story is why was Yanuk’s government so soft that some collection of militants who took over the Maidan after basically all of the original protestors gave up and left (after months of protesting) could take over. They took over the Kiev administrative district and the Rada, set up a kangaroo legislature and started passing laws in gross violation of the constitution and issuing orders. This is nothing but a banana republic coup. Ukraine is really in bad shape that its elected government is so compromised and powerless as to have a regime imposed via the takeover of central government buildings. There should have been proper security for legislators and provisions to set up the legitimate legislature in another city in the event of the capture of the Kiev Rada building.

        • marknesop says:

          Especially considering Yanukovych was supposed to be some kind of bully who rode roughshod over the people and did not give a damn what they thought about it.

  20. yalensis says:

    More defections:
    This time it is the Special Forces Regiment of Kirovograd, Ukraine.

    The regiment was ordered earlier today (Sunday, 2-March), by Defense Ministry (of illegal putschist government in Kiev), to march on Crimea.

    The regiment declined the invitation.

    «Сегодня нам довели приказ, чтобы выдвинуться в район Крымского перешейка и блокировать отряды самообороны Крыма. Мы отказались его выполнять», — заявил военный.

    Он добавил, что солдаты и офицеры отказываются выполнять распоряжение киевских властей, так как не понимают, против кого они должны действовать на полуострове.

    «У многих ребят там живут родственники, сам летом отдыхаю в Евпатории. Многие из нас не понимают, за кого и с кем нам надо воевать в Крыму», — отметил спецназовец.


    “Today we were given the order to move out onto the Crimean Isthmus and to block the [Pro-Russian] self-defense units [that are operating there]. We refused to carry out the order,” the soldier [told the reporter].
    He added that the soldiers and officers are refusing to carry out the orders of the Kiev government, since they do not understand exactly against whom they are supposed to be acting on the peninsula.
    “Many of the lads have relatiaves living there, I myself go there every summer on vacation, to Evpatoria. Many of us do not understand exactly who we are supposed to be fighting against in Crimea,” the special forces soldier commented.


    What a blockhead! This guy puts his beach vacation plans ahead of the good of the rest of the world. Doesn’t he “get it” that Putin is a thug who must be stopped! I know it, because I heard it from Julia Ioffe on CNN.

    • yalensis says:

      P.S. Just to be on the safe side, I looked up Kirovohrad on google maps. It’s in Central Ukraine, South of Kiev, West of the Dnipr River,. Is not in Crimea.

    • marknesop says:

      Be wary of a trick; it might not have been the real Julia Ioffe, who is a Russia expert. It’s always wise to check – in future, I recommend you ask her to name the airport in Moscow that starts with “Ш”.

  21. Al says:

    Canada threatening to pull out of the G8 & UK ministers not going to Paralympics in Sochi.

    Tantrums all around then! The ‘West’ would dearly love to ‘DO SOMETHING’, it’s clarion call since 1989, but it seems to be at a loss. Lots of headlines says ‘The World…’bla bla bla ‘Russia.’ As usual, this is the West calling itself The World. Flogging a dead horse or spanking a live sheep? It gets their goat.

    • reggietcs says:

      Russia should get signed expressions of support from as many nations as it can and present it to the media to show just how isolated and irrelevant the west has become. There were more state officials at Sochi than any other Winter Olympic game in history, but the western media made it appear as if the lack of western leaders there was an embarrassment for Russia. What’s actually “embarrassing” is how arrogantly the west elevates itself above the rest of humanity as if no one else matters.

      The world is changing and becoming more multi-polar and this is why the west is going in panic mode.

      • Al says:

        Yup, multi-polar. Except the poles are somewhere else…

        Notice the almost total lack of condemnation from the rest of the world? Nope! Lying by omission. The best in western journalism!

    • marknesop says:

      It’s just a baaaaaaad show all ’round. I’d like to ask the Prime Minister, “What were ewe thinking?”.

  22. reggietcs says:

    The US media coverage has gone off the rails. While the BBC seems to be loosening up a bit on it’s blackout of criticism of the Banderite-orangist regime in Kiev, the US continues to peddle the most outrageous narrative and spin I’ve seen since the 2003 Iraq invasion. I don’t watch US cable news networks much because the mendacity is simply too much for me to stomach. But this is what I’m being told.

    Among the spin:

    – They continue to deny that there are neo-Nazi’s in the new regime or even in Ukraine for that matter. This is something widely known by just about everybody in the world at this stage, but the US media continues to refer to Bandera (that’s if he’s even mentioned) as a “controversial figure” and claims that Svoboda are simply radicalized Maidan youth fed up with corruption – a blatant lie.

    – The US media continues to peddle the fiction that Russia has invaded Ukraine and broken international law – something the US media generally doesn’t seem too interested in when the US decides to bomb, invade and destabilize countries it doesn’t like. They fail to point out that the Russians haven’t fired a single shot or killed anyone and that the troop levels presently in Crimea are legal. It seems to me that Russia simply shuffles the military, issues a few stern warnings and gravity takes care of everything else.

    -They continue to falsely refer to Yanukovych as a “dictator” and his government as a “regime” while failing to remind viewers that he was a democratically elected leader who was deposed in a coup.

    -And most comically, they STILL continue to refer to the Maidan mob as “protesters” and that the protests we’re seeing in the East are paid for by the Russian government – naturally, no evidence whatsoever is offered to back this claim up but it’s a meme that’s repeated over and over almost daily as fact. The idea that the east may very well be rejecting Washington’s stooges is a completely alien concept to the US media and hell would probably freeze over first before they reported or accepted the obvious.

    • kirill says:

      The US is now the successor of the USSR in terms of totalitarianism. A pseudo one party state (no real difference between Repugs and Demorats except how much crumbs they are will to throw US workers and no difference in terms of foreign policy) and a media that sings in fully synchronized chorus that pushes the most ludicrous BS imaginable from the POV of anyone with a clue. To get any news in the US that is not state mouthpiece BS one has to read samizdat (i.e. alternative internet sources) and listen to foreign news. All the features of life in the USSR loathed in the west and trotted out to this day to bash Russians with.

  23. yalensis says:

    Okay, I just want to make two larger points, and this comes from spending quite a lot a time today monitoring Western MSM, as well as Russian-language MSM.

    Point #1:
    Western MSM admits, belatedly, that Russia really pulled off quite a feat here. What we have actually witnessed in the last couple of days is the skating equivalent of a quadruple-quadruple Axel jump. Russia now has (even in the words of Western MSM) COMPLETE OPERATIONAL CONTROL over Crimea. Russia controls the land, the air and the sea of Crimea. Without a shot being fired, and without a single human death, that we know of. And all in 2 days.

    Was this a brilliant campaign, or what? Medals to everyone involved! Glory to Russian Army!

    Point #2:
    NATO has 2 options. Either option will lead to the end of NATO as we know it:
    (a) Option #1: NATO declares war on Russia. Result: NATO will lose the war.
    (b) Option #2: NATO does nothing. Thereby proving that it (NATO) is irrelevant. NATO’s sole purpose in this universe was to wage war on Russia. If NATO does NOT wage war on Russia, then NATO proves that it has no purpose in life.

    • yalensis says:

      Slava! Slava! Medals to the officers! Medals to the troops!

    • Al says:

      “Was this a brilliant campaign, or what? Medals to everyone involved! Glory to Russian Army!”

      Can they afford to give everyone luxury cars?? 😉

      NATO should get something. Maybe a goldfish in a bag?

      • Moscow Exile says:

        Please, don’t count your chickens before they hatch. I don’t like tempting fate. I shall make a small sacrifice of my favourite porker to Wodin this evening and beg his guidance.

    • Jen says:

      I rather think that Option #2 is the more likely of the two. The illegal govt in Kyiv calls on (if it hasn’t done so already) NATO to help defend it. With the mass defections of the Ukrainian military to the Russian side though, NATO decides not to do anything and deserts the Turchinov / Yatseniuk govt in its “hour of need”. Just as the US decided not to help Georgia in its “hour of need” in August 2008.

      The upshot is that not only does Russia win but also Russia and China will draw closer together. You’ve probably already heard that the mass knifing attack in Kunming in SW China has been linked to Uighur separatist activity in western China by Beijing. If this link is substantiated by more evidence, then the timing of the attack may not be coincidental and could suggest that Uighur separatists are indeed co-operating with separatists in the Mejlis of the Crimean Tatars and rogue elements in the Erdogan government in Turkey as hinted at by the Voice of Russia article on Anonymous Ukraine that Fern and I referenced earlier in this comments thread. It would be to both Moscow and Beijing’s advantage to share information and work together to stop Turkey from exploiting Crimean Tatar and Uighur sentiments for autonomy for its own geopolitical purposes.

    • Jen says:

      The quadruple-quadruple axel jump would be an octuple axel jump.

  24. Al says:

    National Post headline:

    John Baird rules out military intervention to stop Russia’s ‘ridiculous’ ‘Soviet-style’ invasion of Ukraine

    Who looks like the nutter now? It is all simply contradictory and ridiculous reasoning;

    a) it’s ridiculous, therefore not worth looking at, yet
    b) it’s ‘soviet style’ which is extremely serious. Since when did the soviets ever do anything half-assed?
    c) no military intervention because it is both serious and ridiculous

    Is there a Canadian version of the Muppet Show, Spitting Image or Les Guignols? LOLZ, innit?

    • kirill says:

      Hungarians and Czechoslovakians (back then) did not want Soviet troops imposing regimes on them. Crimeans love Russian troops saving them from Right Sector and jihadi militants trying to move in and disrupt the democratic activity of the local government. Russia is not imposing any regime but preventing a set of goons from imposing a regime. There is no analogy to the USSR whatsoever. But there is a clear analogy to the subversion that the US enacted in Latin America to impose juntas against local democracies (e.g. Guatemala, Chile, Argentina, etc.)

    • Ilya says:

      John “Blabber” Baird is actually held in quite high esteem by the American establishment, according to releases by Wikileaks. That should be sufficient to circumscribe his character.

    • marknesop says:

      All those shows are Canadian inventions; we merely allowed them to be performed by those who currently pretend to have invented them.

      For snarky political satire, I recommend The Rick Mercer Report – a little like The Daily Show or The Colbert Report, although likely on a much more modest budget. His mockery of our Southern neighbours is often sidesplitting.

  25. Al says:

    I had to clench my buttox when I saw this. Lost a kidney though.

  26. yalensis says:

    Western leaders, so petty and spiteful, now saying they will not attend Sochi Special Olympics.

    It doesn’t matter. The para-Olympian athletes will go to Sochi, and do their thing.

    These are people who were born (no fault of their own) with significant physical and mental handicaps. But nonetheless, through force of will, determined to achieve excellence, trained hard, studied, and became important athletes. So, they will do their thing and show the world what the human spirit consists of, regardless of small-minded politicians.

  27. Al says:

    Sarah Palin says she has been proved right about her prediction that “Russia would invade the Ukraine”.

    How the wheels turn. My comedy USA would be Fruitcake McCain as Prez & Sara Palin as Vice. Fozzy Bear as Putin’s inside man as Secretary for Defense.

    • Ilya says:

      Exquisite deductive reasoning: a vague assertion that Obama is unschooled in international affairs qua prediction of Russia’s putative violation of Ukrainian sovereignty after a US-backed coup.

  28. Fern says:

    If y’all think it’s tough being Canadian because of your government’s kiss-ass relationship with the US, just thank God you’re not a Brit. We have to put up with pygmy never-beens (those who failed to make the grade as has-beens) like William Hague strutting around on the world stage. Today, David Cameron filled his allotted role as Obama’s echo chamber by ‘telling’ Russia that there would be costs because of its stance on Crimea. Just plain embarrassing.

    Interesting development earlier with Putin agreeing to Angela Merkel’s suggestion that a ‘contact’ group be set up to find a political solution to Ukraine. Feels like the beginning of a ‘F**k the US’ moment.

    • kirill says:

      Hmm, the word ‘costs’ keeps coming up. I think this is not just some diplomatic and economic sanctions. This is likely a bald faced thread of subversion. Expect the Russian “opposition” aka the liberast fringe to go in high gear. Perhaps some terrorist bombs will be detonated in Moscow subways or airports to send Putin the message who is the real boss of this planet.

    • Moscow Exile says:

      Nay, think on: Wee Willie Haig could sup 12 pints of best Yorkshire bitter, though, when he were nobbut a lad.

  29. kirill says:

    Oh my, evil Russian tyranny is slowly taking over the EU with gas exports. I guess all the wishful thinking about shale gas making Russia weak has been subverted by cold, hard reality. Unfortunately, Russia and the rest of the world are all going to suffer from the coming fossil fuel production decline so there is no point in being triumphalist by any side.

    • marknesop says:

      You don’t know how funny that is, because my newest post just went up in which the shoulder-to-shoulder munchkins of the EU and USA sort of threatened Putin out of the side of their mouths that if he did not withdraw his troops, the EU just might find an alternate sugar-daddy to sell it energy, and then Russia will be left with a bunch of energy it can’t sell, which will just serve them right. I swear.

      You are hereby awarded the post of Minister of True Belief, for having stuck by reality through the blizzard of bullshit about shale gas and fracking and over-the-moon reports which have immediately upon release become the porn of the Russophobic masses who yearn for lots of lovely GAS just so that those intolerable Russians can be cast back into the pit of starvation and woe. Go forth with your head held high, Mr. Minister, because your faith never wavered and now it has been rewarded, the truth wrenched from the grieving breast of the enemy himself.

  30. Fern says:

    I have no idea whether this authentic but it’s pretty funny and deserves to be true. A commentator on a ‘Moon of Alabama’ thread, quoting an article from ‘American Thinker’ claims Putin once said “negotiating with Obama is like playing chess with a pigeon. The pigeon knocks over all the pieces, sh**s on the board and then struts around like it won the game.”

    I’ve been wondering about a possible terror attack during the paralympic games – how many of the really crack military units have been transferred from Sochi to Crimea?

    • marknesop says:

      I saw a comment earlier on Moon of Alabama that Poland was moving some of its armoured units up to the border and holding them there, but I’ve gone back and I can’t find it now. It had a link, but I didn’t look at it when I first saw it. Anyone see anything about Poland doing some sabre-rattling?

      • reggietcs says:

        There’ve been a lot of – I think false – reports like these circulating on the web the past three days. The other one being that the US is sending the 6th fleet to the Black Sea. I’ve heard all of these stories but none of them have been confirmed.

        I seriously doubt any of these things are happening. The US sending the 6th fleet with a carrier group to the Black Sea is forbidden by treaty (I think) and Poland going solo on Ukraine is not plausible to me without NATO backing them up.

  31. Fern says:

    Mark, I think this is the link you’re referring to. The article is in Polish; the commentator who posted it claims it reports Polish forces moving eastwards. Donald Tusk has apparently been doing a ‘we face another Munich moment’ type speeches with Putin as Hitler – makes a nice change for him from being Stalin – while John McCain is doing his “we’re all {insert appropriate nationality] now” bit.,wojskowosc?zobacz%2Fprzegrupowanie-w-polskiej-armii-w-zwiazku-z-kryzysem-na-ukrainie-
    The crazies are just determined to get us into war.

    • marknesop says:

      Yes, thanks, Fern; I imagine this is probably it. I didn’t look at it originally, but I remember the comment mentioned there were signs which would indicate their direction of travel, and I see a sign is circled. This is all light infantry stuff, though – light APC’s and trucks, all stuff that can be moved easily at little cost. No tanks, no towed artillery, no fuel bowsers, nothing that would indicate they were preparing for a protracted land battle. Applying the west’s own logic, no medical vehicles, so they’re not expecting casualties! I hate to burst their bubble, but unless they could see the entire Russian line of advance they would not know if there were any medical vehicles or not, because they are usually in the rear, but at least someone was thinking, which means they were not in the Ukrainian government.

      I imagine Tusk just wants to move some stuff around, to show how serious he is and so that people won’t laugh when he starts that Hitler routine. And realistically, except for that moment when Putin caught Tusk’s arm when he stumbled, overcome with grief, at the funeral for the victims of the presidential plane crash, there is no love lost between the Poles and the Russians and especially between Putin and the Polish government. The Poles had a booth on the Maidan, doling out Polish goodies and friendly revolutionary encouragement. They keep trying to make the point that Putin’s behaviour here is burning up friendships, but it is kind of comical to see Cameron and Obama trying to squeeze into their outraged-buddy costumes. Hollande came out Russophobic and swinging from his election, the only leader with whom Putin enjoys any kind of relationship, and that is mostly pragmatic respect rather than friendship, is Merkel, and those two are still talking although they are by no means friendly. The rest, whoopty doo, no loss. Don’t let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.

    • kirill says:

      This is pure state propaganda (not just words, shuffling equipment around) for internal Polish consumption. Brave Polish government doing something to secure itself from bear at the gate.

      Godwin’s “law” needs a proper rephrasing:

      “Inane comparisons to historical events automatically discredit the arguer and the argument.”

      So bringing up Hitler, Munich or whatnot does not satisfy this law if the comparison is relevant. Godwin’s “law” does not have this restriction and is inane itself for this reason. All the BS comparisons to 1938 being repeated by nattering nitwits are not worth the time of day. FFS, Right Sector *are* avowed Nazis and they clearly are a central element of the new regime. Anyone with a clue should be worried why NATO is openly allying itself with Nazis.

      The Polish support for these latter day UPA militants is baffling. Is the current Polish government such a complete puppet of the US/EU? You would expect Poland to denounce the participation of Right Sector and Svoboda in the Kiev regime.

  32. kirill says:

    Can you believe the utter inanity: some turds found a photo of the guy who foisted the Russian flag in Kharkov wearing a Nazi uniform and made a fuss about it! What about the Right Sector real Nazis running amok in Ukraine, terrorizing people?

    I have also seen some boneheads trying to discredit the 143,000 refugees claim by showing a photo of a nearly empty border crossing. As if refugees stream at a constant rate and the photo is giving us a representative sampling and not a cherry picked minimum.

    The west is using the same propaganda as in Syria, where supposedly there is no Al Qaeda and all the jihadis are Robin Hoods fighting for justice. The Right Sector “jihadis” are pure and clean as long as they serve the interests of the west.

    • reggietcs says:

      Hilary Clinton complained a few months ago that the west was losing “the information war.”

      The REAL problem is that they are simply lying through their teeth on just about everything and people are looking elsewhere for information outside the MSM bubble.

      When Time Magazine, The Israeli “liberal” paper Haaretz and other mainstream venues claim that there are no neo-Nazis in Ukraine and that it’s some “Kremlin plot,” it’s almost as ridiculous as attempting to convince their audience that the earth isn’t a sphere. It’s patently absurd for them to push this nonsense when most media organs in the world (including the BBC now) are reporting the neo-Nazi mobs roaming the streets of Kiev with baseball bats. What happening is that TIME magazine/MSNBC/CNN/etc., have decided they don’t want their viewers/readers to know this because they’ll connect the dots and conclude that the US government played a major role in bringing these fascists to power.

    • marknesop says:

      Yes, here’s the Kyiv Post’s breathless “Russia’s Invasion of Ukraine” liveblog-type front-page story. Enjoy the rich irony of the statement from the Lukhansk City Council as they declare their refusal to obey the central government: “[Lukhansk] considers illegitimate all central executive branches of power because they were formed with violation of laws…and calls on the Verkhovna Rada to declare Russian language a second state language in Ukraine, to take immediate measures to disarm all illegal armed groups and to cease politically motivated prosecutions of police and Berkut riot-control police units“. I bet Yats didn’t expect charges of politically-motivated prosecutions to be leveled against him in his first week on the job. You’ll be shocked to learn that Denys Berezovsky was fired for defecting to the enemy; he is also being investigated for state treason. Everyone’s favourite Georgia Tie Pudding was on hand today, too, to tell the crowd on the Maidan that he really, really admires how great they are, and to impart a core truth – “Putin is brave only when all others fear”. What??? Compared with, “I’d rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy”, that is just never going to take off as a deathless piece of wisdom, and it sounds suspiciously as if he made it up himself, perhaps while distracted as he rummaged through his chest hair for cupcake crumbs.You’ll be delighted to know the 15th SS Totenkopf Brigade Kiev, AKA Right Sector, is preparing to fight for the Crimea. Yep, Yarosh “guarantees the safety of all civilians in Crimea”, I’m sure they will be glad to know, as the neo-Nazi organization encourages young Ukrainians (no Jews or black-asses, though) to join Right Sector squads “being formed throughout Ukraine” to get ready for the big push against Putin. Perhaps General Sashko Biliy himself will march straight down the Highway to Hell at the head of his extremist hordes to get to grips with the dirty Russians. I sure hope so. Rinet Akhmetov – you can’t see him, but I bet he is furrowing his cheeks with both hands in dismay at how this all spun out of control so quickly – argues that Ukrainians can best display their contempt for Putin by being calm, concentrating on the economy and making him richer. Is this getting too ironic for you yet? No? Good; here’s the mayor of Lviv making a plea for unity, in Russian. I bet it gave him boils and lesions on his tongue. We didn’t mean that we hated Russians; gosh, no, what I meant was that we hated waiting for Russians; please send some to visit us right now and you will see how friendly we are!! Ramzan Kadyrov threatens to send Yarosh to the bad place where they sent Doku Umarov – this must be about the fourth time Umarov has been killed, if that’s what he meant. Rada member Nemyria complains that Russian citizens are seizing administration buildings in Ukraine’s regions!! You believe that? Or is it more likely to be Ukrainian citizens who are Russian speakers? Pull the other one, Nemyria. Everyone’s favourite Beaker clone, Yatsenyuk, plays his ace in the hole when he reminds everyone that Russia is in violation of international agreements because all Black Sea troop relocations must be approved by Ukraine, and Ukraine does not approve. How do you know, Yats? The legal leader of Ukraine is in Russia! Nobody needs your permission, you’re just Tymoshenko’s purse-carrier.

      I don’t want to spoil the text of Obama’s call to Putin for you, I’m sure you will discover many comedic gems, but I just have to share my favourite: “The people of Ukraine have the right to determine their own future”. Sure, just as long as they pick what I tell them to through my State Department.

      Totally lulzy from start to finish. It’s like the script for this was written by Quentin Tarantino or something, as neo-Nazis vow to save Ukraine from dissolution. The EU must be so proud.

  33. reggietcs says:


    Anatoly Karlin posted this on Facebook a few days ago:

    Significant improvement in Putin’s approval rating post-Olympics to 69%.

    No doubt this boost was likely due to the successful Olympic games last month which saw Russia not only pulling off a spectacular festival terror free, but winning the medal count – something no one predicted.

    Now we have the Ukraine fiasco – which Putin seems sure to win as well.

    I remember Anatoly himself saying several weeks ago that it was unlikely Putin’s ratings would surge into the 70’s, but it now looks like that’s exactly where he’s headed.

    • marknesop says:

      …and there you have it, folks – Viktor Yanukovych, still the legal President of Ukraine since he was never properly impeached, asks the Russian Duma in writing to help Crimea, including if necessary the use of armed force in Ukraine.

      Wondering what that wobbly feeling is, Yats? Why, that’s called “I don’t have a leg to stand on”.

      • Al says:

        I’m glad to see that they are indeed dotting their ‘i’s and drinking their tea! What a tangled web the West weaves in its desperation to have its cake and eat it.

  34. Moscow Exile says:

    Asked how the US and its allies might respond, Kerry stressed the economic harm that could befall Russia if it continued its occupation of Crimea, but repeatedly said “all options” were under consideration.

    However, in a conference call with reporters later on Sunday, three senior US administration officials made clear that the “menu” of options before the White House does not include military action.

    “Frankly, our goal is to uphold the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Ukraine, not to have a military escalation,” one of the officials said. “I don’t think we’re focused right now on the notion of some US military intervention. I don’t think that would be an effective way to de-escalate the situation.”

    During the call, which last almost an hour, the officials said they were looking to provide Russia with “off-ramps” that would enable Putin to reverse his course, and were applying pressure through a broad international coalition that had agreed to to ostracise Moscow.

    From the “facts are sacred” Grauniad: US concedes Russia has control of Crimea and seeks to contain Putin

    Notice the Putin-is-Russia-Russia-is-Putin meme?

    Another thing, what’s this “off-ramps” crap?

    I get sick of this kind of jargon.

    Why doesn’t he call a spade a fucking shovel?

    As a native speaker of English, I have a good idea what the idiom means, but I can guarantee that the many fluent English speaking Russians whom I know will start asking me today what “off-ramps” signifies.

    Bloody “road-maps” and “stepping up to the plate”!

    Load of bollocks!

    A British diplomat would have said: “Her Majesty’s Government is looking forward to assisting the Russian government so that it may find a means of egress from this embarrassing and difficult situation in which it now finds itself”.

    Crystal clear, doncha think, old bean?

    True, a load of bullshit, but it sounds nicer, doesn’t it?


  35. Al says:

    The Guardian, in a current piece, claims that after the recent phone call with Putin, she says he has ‘lost the plot’.

    It’s not like the Guardian to make anything up, or read into things that supports their own editorial line, is it?

    BTW, Ian Traynor, Europe editor is an arch serbophobe who wrote some of the most slanted pieces during the breakup of the SFRY. My journalist contacts tell me most other journos think he’s a knob. Now if you could hang a coat off that, then he would finally be of some use.

    And then there are the voices of calm reason in the Western press who are too few and two far between. The Indy’s Mary Djevsky has surfaced again to point out the basics to the screaming herodians:

    Ukraine crisis: Nato ‘betrayal’ and Brussels rhetoric pushing Vladimir Putin to act

    What goes around, comes around. Roosting bears etc..

  36. Al says:

    Vis ‘Russia and China reach agreement’, I wonder what the Chinese cost is for having Russia’s back, i.e. if the West threats to Russia amount to more than a few pinpricks, will the Chinese ‘give a quick tug on the economic rug’ (I’m lovin’ that phrase) to remind the West who holds the eggs?

  37. sasharozisk says:

    Просьба к администраторам форума не удалять данный пост
    ну или по крайней мере перенести его в более подходящую категорию.

    Просим помощи в распространение информации о похищении ребенка.

    Похищен Максимов Александр Евгеньевич, 10 сентября 2006 года рождения, уроженца города Бендеры, проживал с отцом Максимовым Евгением Александровичем в городе Тирасполь, Молдова, Приднестровье.

    29 мая 2014 года ребенок был похищен из спортивной секции в городе Тирасполь, похищен был биологической матерью ребенка Доага (Максимова) Кристина Федоровна, 19 октября 1984 г.р., которая в 2011 году Тираспольским городским судом была ограничена в родительских правах в отношении ребенка и практически не появлялась, не виделась и не занималась несовершеннолетним ребенком, но 29 мая 2014 года, после долгого отсутствия, объявилась в городе Тирасполь и силой выволокла ребенка за шиворот с тренировки .

    С 29 мая 2014 года по настоящее время местонахождение ребенка не известно, не известно даже в какой стране она с ребенком находится. По первой оперативной информации всплыла информация что она вывезла ребенка в Тюменскую область, Россия, потом появилась информация что её видели в Москве, а так же в Московской области (в частности в городе Калуга).
    Через несколько недель она устроила скандал и драку в городе Кишинев , Молдова. По последней информации её видели уже в городе Бендеры, Приднестровье, Молдова.
    Так же может находится в Молдове в Чимишлийском районе в частности в городе Чимишлия или Порумбрея.

    Правоохранительными органами Приднестровья гражданка Максимова (Девичья Доага) Кристина Федоровна объявлена в официальный розыск, возбужденно розыскное дело в отношении её и в отношении ребенка. Правоохранительные органы Молдовы так же объявили её и ребенка в официальный розыск по всей территории Молдовы.

    Официальная группа ребенка в одноклассниках –


    В данной группе выложены фото и самого ребенка и самой Максимовой (Доаги) Кристины Федоровны, а так же сканы документов постановлений о розыске.

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