Counting The Dead – Soviet Losses in the Second World War – New Comment Thread

Uncle Volodya says, "There is not a discovery in science, however revolutionary, however sparkling with insight, that does not arise out of what went before. 'If I have seen further than other men,' said Isaac Newton, 'it is because I have stood on the shoulders of giants.”

Uncle Volodya says, “There is not a discovery in science, however revolutionary, however sparkling with insight, that does not arise out of what went before. ‘If I have seen further than other men,’ said Isaac Newton, ‘it is because I have stood on the shoulders of giants.”

I concede defeat: I am too busy to post a new article right now, don’t even have one started, so it’s probably a couple of days away, and we have gone way over the comfortable level for comments to the point where the post is getting slow and clunky to load. You know all this already, I’m just blabbering to get enough text so that the picture doesn’t go out of alignment. I hoped to have something new ready, and God knows there’s no shortage of material, or people to make fun of. But I just can’t find the free time. So please carry on as before, just in a new spot that should load up faster.

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332 Responses to Counting The Dead – Soviet Losses in the Second World War – New Comment Thread

  1. NorthernStar says:


    So calling the current POTUS a ‘war criminal’ is not hyperbole!!!!!!
    How the F can the USA attack a sovereign nation while whining about an alleged Russian presence in Ukraine….
    Listen to how the WH is trying to use 2002 9/11 based ‘authorizations’ for use of force to justify the Syrian air assaults in 2014…amazing….

  2. NorthernStar says:

    “This is a vision of the world in which might makes right – a world in which one nation’s borders can be redrawn by another, and civilized people are not allowed to recover the remains of their loved ones because of the truth that might be revealed. America stands for something different. We believe that right makes might – that bigger nations should not be able to bully smaller ones;

    ***that people should be able to choose their own future.****”

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/full-text-of-president-obamas-2014-address-to-the-united-nations-general-assembly/2014/09/24/88889e46-43f4-11e4-b437-1a7368204804_story.html?wpsrc=slatest_newsletter&sid=5388f0d9dd52b818310003e9

    ..except for those pesky East Ukraine swine

    “Moreover, a different path is available – the path of diplomacy and peace and the ideals this institution is designed to uphold. The recent cease-fire agreement in Ukraine offers an opening to achieve that objective. If Russia takes that path – a path that for stretches of the post-Cold War period resulted in prosperity for the Russian people – then we will lift our sanctions and welcome Russia’s role in addressing common challenges. That’s what the United States and Russia have been able to do in past years – from reducing our nuclear stockpiles to meet our obligations under the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, to cooperating to remove and destroy Syria’s declared chemical weapons. And that’s the kind of cooperation we are prepared to pursue again—
    ****if Russia changes course****”
    This GD guy,,,he just *cannot* keep his trap shut from baiting and/or ridiculing Russia…

    • marknesop says:

      Ha, ha, ha!!!! Wheee!!!! Stop it, Mr. President!! “..cooperating to remove and destroy Syria’s declared chemical weapons”, you mean only after you were painted into a corner and could do nothing else!! Oh, my poor obliques. Did you know that there IS such a thing as too much laughter? After you laugh really hard for a long time, the muscles in your face start to feel stiff like firewood, and you get that novocaine feeling in your face like you just had a tooth out.

      Barack Obama will own the distinction of having presided over the final disillusionment of the American people, when even that flag-waving rah-rah bullshit, what other phrase can we turn backwards….let’s see, we already used the force of our example, not the example of our force….oh, I know, lets go with right makes might, not might makes right – not even the flag waving, throw-stars-in-their-eyes appeal to patriotism will fool them any more. How very appropriate that Syria will be responsible for the mass road-to-Damascus moment when the scales fell from their eyes and they saw what a sham it has all been. Even those who wrap themselves in the flag until they look like a grotesque red-white-and-blue burrito, until it blocks all common-sense vibes, must now acknowledge that the U.S. government has been running a colossal scam on its subjects for years.

      • Tim Owen says:

        Speaking of disillusionment, thought this a great essay:

        http://slavyangrad.org/2014/09/24/the-russia-they-lost/

        • marknesop says:

          Yes, someone – I think it was Moscow Exile – linked that when it first came out. I agree it is a great and moving piece of writing, well worth a second look.

          • yalensis says:

            The article is worth a second look mainly for the comments, most of the commenters pointing out how America has always been a rogue state, pretty much for all its history.

            It still irritates me how the author uses the royal “we”, as in “our generation”, and “we loved the Beatles” and “we adored the West” yada yada.

            As Priscilla Alden would say: “Speak for yourself!”
            (For starters, I always hated America, and I never liked the Beatles either, so the author doesn’t speak for me….)

            • Moscow Exile says:

              I’ve never hated America. I should like to go there one day. New England and Virginia are the places that are of special interest there for me. All that “Wild West” stuff and “cowboy” country – deserts and heat – has never attracted me: I’m more for lakes and forests. That’s why I always wanted to go to Canada when I was younger, but I ended up taking the wrong turning and headed east instead of west.

              Reminds me off John Lennon’s quip to a New York journalist when the Beatles had just arrived on their first US tour:

              – How d’ya find America, John?

              – Turn left at Greenland!

              I never liked the Beatles much either.

              And Lennon was too much of a smart-arse for my liking.

              Wasn’t ever into pop music really.

              There’s only one country that I have visited and about which I can say that I “hated” it, in the sense that I was bloody happy when I left, and that was the German Democratic Republic. And I left the GDR for the Federal Republic of Germany – and I was so happy to be back there as well.

              The citizens of “East Germany” were fine though, in so far as they were Germans, that is.
              🙂

              • yalensis says:

                I don’t actually “hate” America, in the sense of hating the land or the people. On the contrary, the land is magnificent, and the American people are actually pretty great.

                I just REALLY REALLY hate American foreign policy!

            • Tim Owen says:

              Ha! Fair enough. I remember arguing with west european International Socialists in Prague in 1990 over whether they were being paternalist in telling Czechs they didn’t know what they were giving up. I thought they were extraordinarily obtuse at the time. A little less so now.

    • Tim Owen says:

      It really beggars belief. You can literally invert every statement coming out of Western leaders mouths and you will have a true statement. Try it on the above. It works

      In one of the better Cross Talk shows – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6bUGMp6vOg – Jim Dean makes this point. The whole thing reads like a giant psy op. He even makes the point I’ve tweeted like mad for weeks: the first rule of the disinformation war: accuse your enemies of your own crimes.

      They must have put out a new and particularly well-designed manual recently or something. Like that one Lutz wrote for Israel:

      http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/israelgaza-conflict-the-secret-report-that-helps-israelis-to-hide-facts-9630765.html

      • NorthernStar says:

        Vulnerability to Psy-Ops of the ‘Murican Sheeple:
        http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/civil-rights/214857-who-rules-america

      • Jen says:

        This is basically what Noam Chomsky and Ed Herman say in their book “Manufacturing Consent: the Political Economy of the Mass Media”: that the US deflects attention away from its crimes by highlighting the crimes (real or imagined) of its enemies that are eerily similar to or a mirror image of its own crimes. The classic example of such double standards comes from the 1950s and 1960s when the US harped on the Soviet invasions of Hungary and Czechoslovakia because these countries were experimenting with giving their citizens some freedoms while among other things itself invaded Guatemala in 1954 for electing a President who tried to bring social reforms and land ownership reform and in doing so, brought the wrath of US corporate interests on his head.
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobo_%C3%81rbenz

        This of course in a context in which the USSR was also continually berated for surrounding itself with satellite nations in eastern Europe and Asia while the US was busily acquiring military bases in Germany and Japan after having firebombed those countries’ cities to excess, and dropped two atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, far beyond what was needed to force their surrender in WW2. Not to mention the US treatment of Latin America by favouring right-wing governments in that region during the 20th century and beyond.

  3. ThatJ says:

    Russia Asset Freeze Threat Sends European, US Stocks Reeling

    Germany’s DAX is tumbling this morning (and back in the red for 2014) as The Moscow Times reports Russian courts could get the green light to seize foreign assets on Russian territory under a draft law intended as a response to Western sanctions over the Ukraine crisis. Whether this is retaliation at Italian tax police seizing €30m in assets, including a luxury hotel in Rome and two villas in Sardinia, controlled by Arkady Rotenberg, is unclear, but the timing is highly coincidental and Rotenberg has been a longtime ally of Russian president Vladimir Putin.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-25/russia-asset-freeze-threat-sends-dax-reeling

    No More Foreplay: Russia Threatens European Gas Supply Disruptions

    It appears Vladimir Putin is willing to hit’em while they’re down. Early European equity weakness (and safe-haven flows) on asset-freeze threats have accelerated as Bloomberg reports, Russian energy minister Alexander Novak threatens gas supply disruptions if the EU continues to re-export Russian gas to Ukraine. 3Y German bond yields have plunged to -4.1bps, a record low close and European stocks are closing on their lows of the day.

    *RUSSIA THREATENS GAS SUPPLY THROTTLING TO EUROPE: HANDELSBLATT

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-25/no-more-foreplay-russia-threatens-european-gas-supply-disruptions

    The Khorasans: As Fake As the Kardashians

    Obama is now – after the fact – scrambling to justify bombing the sovereign nation of Syria without the permission of either the Syrian government or even the United States Congress by saying that we were going after the super-evil Khorasans, who were about to attack us.

    My God! That sounds terrifying … like a cross between Genghis Khan, Klingons and the Kardashians!

    The U.S. is saying that they’re even more dangerous than ISIS.

    There’s just one wee little problem … the Khorasan threat is as as fake as the Kardashians’ physiques. (Admittedly, it’s confusing, given that the Kardashians have also inserted themselves right in the middle of the Syrian conflict.)

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-25/khorasans-fake-kardashians

  4. ThatJ says:

    Ukraine to shut Russia border, seek EU membership

    Kiev (AFP) – President Petro Poroshenko on Thursday ordered a temporary closure of Ukraine’s porous border with Russia and voiced plans to apply for EU membership in 2020 as part of his ex-Soviet country’s Westward shift.

    A senior Ukrainian security source told AFP that the border security measures was designed to halt the alleged smuggling of weapons into the separatist east and would enter into force “soon”.

    The two steps underscore the extent of Kiev’s alienation from its historic master and deal a further blow to Russian President Vladimir Putin’s dream of folding Ukraine into a Kremlin-led alliance that could rival NATO and the European Union.

    The plunge in the neighbours’ relations comes in the wake of the February ouster in Kiev of a Moscow-backed leader and the Kremlin’s subsequent annexation of Crimea and alleged backing of a bloody pro-Russian revolt.

    But the announcements also threaten to further devastate Ukraine’s imploding economy by halting trade between the mutually dependent nations and increasing the likelihood of Russia adopting retaliatory steps.

    A decree published on the presidential website ordered the government “to settle… the issue of temporarily closing checkpoints on Ukraine’s state border with the Russian Federation to cars, sea and pedestrian traffic.”

    It added that the 2,000-kilometre (1,200-mile) land frontier with Ukraine’s giant northeastern neighbour may be closed “to other forms of traffic” if necessary.

    The presidency said Poroshenko also told a meeting of judges that Ukraine would make a formal EU membership bid in 2020 that was made possible by this year’s signing of a landmark political and economic association pact.

    Poroshenko said his “Strategy 2020” plan “envisions 60 reforms and social programmes whose adoption will prepare Ukraine to apply for membership in the European Union in six years,” his press service said.

    – ‘Very serious decision’ –

    Ukraine has already infuriated Russia by announcing plans to seek future NATO membership — a step the Kremlin views as a direct national security threat.

    Poroshenko reaffirmed those intentions on Thursday by tweeting that he had just “instructed the cabinet minister to revoke Ukraine’s non-aligned (nation) status”.

    There was no immediate reaction to Poroshenko’s various decisions from Moscow.

    Both Kiev and its Western allies accuse Russia of sending elite forces and heavy weapons such as surface-to-air missiles into eastern Ukraine to help the separatist uprising that pro-Kremlin gunmen launched in April.

    Russia denies the charges and dismisses NATO satellite imagery purporting to show its troops in Ukraine as fabrications designed to back the military alliance’s expansion toward its border.

    A senior security source said the border closure instructions were originally drafted by Ukraine’s National Security and Defence Council in order to limit future cross-border travel to rail service and passenger flights.

    “Air and rail traffic would be substantially easier to control than automobile and pedestrian traffic,” the source told AFP.

    “This is a very serious social decision, but one we were forced to adopt.”

    A spokesman for Ukraine’s state border service said no additional security measures had yet been taken and that cars were still allowed to pass along the dozens of border crossings linking the two countries.

    But it was no immediately clear how Ukraine intended to implement the measures along a series of crossings now controlled by insurgents in the separatist Donetsk and Lugansk regions.

    – Obama blasts Russian ‘aggression’ –

    The 48-year-old Ukrainian leader’s instructions were issued only hours after US President Barack Obama delivered a hard-hitting address at the United Nations denouncing Russia’s “aggression” in Europe.

    Obama told a special session of the UN General Assembly that Russia was on the wrong side of history in Ukraine and facing still further isolation from the West.

    But he also offered to lift punishing economic sanctions against Moscow if it threw its weight behind an unravelling peace deal with Kiev designed to end fighting that has killed more than 3,200 and forced 650,000 from their homes.

    Obama promised to “lift our sanctions and welcome Russia’s role in addressing common challenges” if the Kremlin “changes course”.

    The outstretched hand to Moscow came a day after pro-Russian guerrillas brushed off the terms of a peace deal under which they would receive limited self-rule but remain part of Ukraine.

    The insurgents announced plans to set up their own parliaments and elect new leaders in self-organised November 2 polls.

    Ukrainian lawmakers had last week backed Poroshenko’s proposal for rebel-held parts of the Russian-speaking east to hold local council elections December 7 that would help restore law and order but not pursue any independence claims.

    • ThatJ says:

      A certain “PutInIt” is spamming the comment section like crazy. This is the behavior of a mentally ill person. It’s one comment after another blasting Russia:

      [C]an we just sanction any business connected with Russia and watch their country collapse again? It’s about time we remind them who lost the Cold War.”

      And

      [A]nd the Russian people will enjoy standing in line for limited food supply.”

      And many, many more.

      For the sake of balance, “Finn” commented:

      [T]he state-controlled U.S. media will continually find diversions to distract us from our own pressing domestic concerns. It’s the oldest trick in the book. And, it’s being practiced on you at this very moment concerning the Ukraine situation. I suppose it has some value mentioning the trials and tribulations of a despondent neighbor of the Russian Federation, but such constant attention and advocacy is overblown and unfortunately carries a hidden agenda which few grasp. At its core is the selling of the West’s new moral and social agenda, which faces opposition from both within the West itself and the majority of Russian peoples. Commonly called culture rot, decadence of values, sexual debauchery, defilement of youth, etcetera. The West must deal with such new social ills as part of their installed governments and still try to successfully function within the global community. And, here lies the main role of western media at this time. The denigration of all that is perceived to be a threat to this new norm. Enter Russia. Socially conservative and not yet fully stained by this new standard of western social immorality. They are a flickering flame that must be extinguished for the advancement of our new social immorality to be acceptable as the new world norm. Just as these odious values are shoved down our throats domestically, they must be shoved down the world’s throat, like it or not. And, this is the main mission of western state-controlled media. Destroy all who stand in defiance of the west’s new, entrenched social immorality and debauched decadence established within its system of governance and society.”

    • marknesop says:

      The western media might as well just embark on a comedy tour and give up any pretense to be reporting the news; their content is all just spin designed to “catapult the propaganda“, as lovable old George W. Bush used to say. Now Russia (who annexed Crimea, we must never, ever forget) and Ukraine are “mutually dependent”. I guess you can’t grow turnips in Russia any more, while Russian aircraft designers are stuck with thousands of empty airframes because only Antonov knows how to build aircraft engines. What will ever become of Russia without Ukraine’s trade; it’s killing them, I tell you.

      I’m glad the Chocolate Emperor put off joining the EU until 2020, because I expect Ukraine to be in far worse shape then than it is now, at which time the EU would be welcome to it.

      Putting the cherry on top of this smorgasbord of absurdity, Obama’s “promise” to lift sanctions that had no basis in reality for ever being imposed in the first place somehow constitutes an “outstretched hand”!!! And all Russia has to do to earn Obama’s grudging approbation is admit it was being aggressive, stop it at once and give Ukraine a helping hand so it can meet the standard to join NATO. Is that all, or was there something else?

      Tell you what, Mr. President. If it were me to whom you were posing that delightful offer, I would suggest you fold it up small and shove it up your crinkle-cut waste-gate until you could dribble it off the inside of your skull like the Harlem Globetrotters. Of course, it’s not up to me.

      Please, Russia. Boot the U.S. Ambassador out of Moscow, put him on the next plane home, recall your own Ambassador, and announce the severing of diplomatic relations with the United States. Don’t do it for me – do it for yourself.

  5. ThatJ says:

    We are told frequently, and the argument has substance, that the removal of Assad is all pipeline politics: by removing the pro-Russian Assad from power, pipelines carrying gas from the gas-rich Arab states will both deprive Russia of much needed income and decrease Europeans’ energy reliance on their eastern neighbor. Europe’s total isolation from Russia is a neocon goal.

    But looking at the Middle East map, I now question this view. Not because the neocons like Russia, but because the pipelines have to pass through countries mired in sectarian violence, where they are certain to become targets, with another issue being the distance to Europe and the cost involved, all making it an unlikely project.

    The pipelines can pass through Iraq to Turkey, totally bypassing Syria.

    So Syria is not an impediment to incoming pipelines from the gulf monarchies, The problems associated with the distance, cost, sectarian violence and gas disruption resulting from blown pipelines explain why they are not being built.

    So different questions arise.

    1) Is Assad Israel-friendly?
    2) Is Assad a friend of Iran?
    3) Is the emerging of powerless statelets in a chaotic M.E. good for Israel?

    The Organized Jewish Community: Wall-to-wall Support for a Strike on Syria

    ADL: ‘Conspiracy Theorists Blame Jews for Events in Syria’

    Globalists and Neocons: Two potent forces opposing the Assad government in Syria

    Bombs for a Better World: Syria, Surveillance and the Neo-Crocs

    Waiting to be ‘called out’…

    • yalensis says:

      You can go on waiting. There is nothing in any of these links I could disagree with or find objectionable.
      I think you know the difference…. or maybe not…

      It’s when you start ranting about things you don’t know, like Trotskyism for example, or conflating the level of the individual “little person” (like some ordinary Jew or immigrant walking down the street minding their own business) with the bigger picture (like the Anglo-Zionist military-banking complex).

      Or, in general, conflating everything in the world you don’t like, even things that mutually contradict each other, but you wind them all up together, into one giant ball of string.

  6. Fern says:

    @Tim Owen re post of 25/09/14 at 6.40 am
    Tim, in your post above, you describe how you’d “tried to find some corroboration of Stephen Cohen’s claim that Putin had not made the Customs Union/EU Association offer an either/or….” This and the discussion above on this issue got me thinking – I didn’t know the answer so did a bit of digging and found this Q & A session following a ‘Supreme Eurasian Economic Council Meeting’ on 24th October 2013 which seems to confirm that Cohen’s position is not quite correct. In reply to a journalist’s question, Putin sets out his policy on Ukraine, the EU Association Agreement and the Customs Union. The date is significant because it’s before Yanukovitch deferred the decision to sign the EU Association Agreement and before the Maidan kicked off:-

    QUESTION: A question for President Putin. Please answer as concretely as possible: are you for or against Ukraine signing the association agreement with the European Union?
    VLADIMIR PUTIN: We are not for or against it. That is none of our business. It is the sovereign right of the Ukrainian people, the Ukrainian leadership represented by the President, Parliament and Government.
    QUESTION: Then please answer directly. After signing this association agreement, would it be possible for Ukraine to join the Customs Union? And if not, then why?
    VLADIMIR PUTIN: No, it would not be possible. It would be impossible because that association assumes the creation of a free trade zone between the European Union and Ukraine. Within the framework of that zone, Ukraine takes on the responsibility to implement the European Union’s trade rules and trade policy within its territory.
    Of the approximately 10.5 thousand existing import customs tariffs (I might get the exact figure wrong), 7,666 tariffs would be eliminated the moment the agreement comes into force, and it could come into force as early as the beginning of next year, sometime around February. In the next three years, the market would be about 85.5% open, and several years down the line, 98.5% open. We feel that this kind of open market is very dangerous for us; it is unacceptable at today’s stage of our economic development.

    I have already said many times that we are striving to create a common Eurasian Economic Space, from Lisbon to Vladivostok. But in order for this to occur on an equitable basis with equal rights, in a way where we do not incur any economic losses and, as a result, losses in the social sector, this needs to be harmonised gradually.
    And the following question occurs: as we know, Ukraine is required to implement the European Union’s technical regulations within its territory. This is a very important issue. What does this mean for people who are not experts in these issues? It means that nearly all the goods, or many of the goods produced in Ukraine, must meet the European Union’s technical standards. These are good technical regulations – very good ones. But in order to release goods that meet them, one must modernise the economy and various manufacturing sectors. This requires major investments: around 100 billion euros, according to our expert assessments. Are these resources available?
    After all, when a nation becomes a full-fledged member of the European Union, it receives loans, certain benefits, etc. But Ukraine is not joining as a full member, and I don’t think there are any loans or any sort of benefits for it.
    In our opinion, we believe this can lead to the displacement of Ukrainian goods to other markets, first and foremost, the Customs Union market. And if we assume that we have a free trade zone, and Ukraine and Russia are both members of that zone, then this will certainly lead to displacement onto our market. So we retain the right to use protocol No. 6 of the free trade zone agreement, in order to protect our market.
    This does not mean we will forbid the import of Ukrainian goods into the Russian market. But it does mean those goods will not benefit from preferential conditions within the free trade zone, although they will be subject to the so-called “most favoured nation” regime. In other words, goods produced in Ukraine will be categorised in the same way as all other WTO member states.

    We also looked at another issue. Today, I briefed my colleagues. One of the provisions states that goods whose final assembly occurs on Ukrainian territory will be considered of Ukrainian origin, even if part and units are produced in EU nations. This is called CKD assembly. And we do not want to have CKD assembly located on a large scale in our territory. What we have been seeking from our partners and what we have nearly achieved is that if, for example, we are implementing joint engineering projects, then those projects have to be deeply localised – 60-70% localised. And we agreed on this. All our main global partners or global brands are working in the automotive industry. We do not want to receive some kind of “gift” through the back door in the form of a “screwdriver.” We need to consider this as well. And incidentally, this can significantly complicate our cooperation in such high-tech sectors as aviation, aerospace, shipbuilding, and engineering overall……..
    So today, Mr Yanukovych and I have agreed that we will certainly hold consultations with our Ukrainian partners in accordance with the rules set forth in the tree trade zone agreement, but we reserve the right to take protective measures, which I already mentioned.

    http://eng.kremlin.ru/transcripts/6170

    It’s hard to see how Russia treating Ukrainian goods in the same way as goods produced by “all other WTO member states” constituted an unbearable provocation to the Maidanites, particularly as Putin clearly laid down his approach before the Maidan began. So I think Timothy Synder’s argument “that Putin provoked the crisis and forced the hand of the Maidan movement” is not tenable.

    • yalensis says:

      This is great research, Fern.
      That should clarify and put the issue to rest.

      • marknesop says:

        I agree. It not only puts to bed the notion that Putin ever said Ukraine could have its cake and eat it, too – characterized by the western press, of course, as “pleading with Ukraine to not abandon the Eurasian Union, desperately trying to salvage something” – it also highlights how well he prepares for these press conferences or opportunistic interviews, explaining Russia’s position sensibly and citing motivations few could disagree with if they just put themselves in his place.

        I once believed Putin had proposed an either/or relationship, too, and should have known better because Ukraine would immediately be motivated to try and extract the best from each for its own benefit, and there would be no quid pro quo. By the time it gets ready to join the EU, there may not be one.

    • Jen says:

      Yes, what Putin says is similar to what I thought: that EU goods imported into Ukraine could be repackaged as Ukrainian goods or be incorporated into Ukrainian goods and if they were to proceed into Russia under the previous free trade agreement that Russia and Ukraine had, Russia could be held liable for allowing illegal passage of EU-derived products and required to pay compensation to EU producers. Especially now that trade sanctions are in place in both Russia and the EU on certain categories of goods.

      Putin’s reply also suggests that Yanukovych was made aware of the requirement in the Association Agreement that Ukraine would have to change all its technical standards – hundreds of them including the infamous railway gauge standard and the traffic signs – to EU standards at a cost of several billion euros over 10 years with no guarantee of full EU membership or a visa-free travel regime.

      OK, I’ll say it first! – Idiot (that’s me ‘cos I mentioned the railway gauge thingy)🙂.

    • Tim Owen says:

      Thanks Fern (and sorry I missed this.) Indeed, a great bit of digging.

      As always the Russian position seems detailed, informed and reasonable while the EU position seems to hinge entirely on vagaries and have the depth of a PR release. (Baroso’s “civilizational choice” – gag – and all that.)

      Actually it’s what you state here:

      “It’s hard to see how Russia treating Ukrainian goods in the same way as goods produced by “all other WTO member states” constituted an unbearable provocation to the Maidanites”

      that really puts it to bed. Obvious perhaps, but I’m on my first coffee.

      Much obliged.

  7. marknesop says:

    Excellent and in-depth piece by John Helmer details how the Canadian opposition successfully mounted a legal challenge to the sanctions on Russia by this country, and forced the government to drop sanctions against two Russian banks. Helmer highlights the law which allowed the government to implement the sanctions in the first place, and demonstrates the standard of proof is quite high. The current Conservative government is clearly pandering to Washington, and hoping nobody will notice or object strongly enough to challenge it.

    A second thrust to the article details just how unpopular Stephen Harper is with the Canadian people, and his job approval rating – an unbelievable 29% – is matched in this country only by that of the Premier of the province in which I live. A whopping 65% of Canadians disapprove of the job he is doing. Please note that the job approval ratings for Barack Obama are also according to Canadians – he’d probably be quite pleased to get 58% approval from his own electorate.

    It’s difficult to imagine Canada could keep sanctions in place much longer without destroying any chance for the Conservatives in the next election. Unless they are simply resigned to being wiped out.

  8. Moscow Exile says:

    “The information war for the Ukraine”

    Colliemum has already posted this German TV satirical clip above. Here it is (from Saker) with English subtitles:

    From the satirical show “Die Anstalt”.

    A good line from the sketch runs thus

    Wir kämpfen doch um die Meinungfreiheit?

    – Ja, aber im Rusland, nicht hier!

    – But aren’t we fighting for freedom of expression?

    – Yes, but in Russia, not here!

  9. yalensis says:

    Russian media reporting on the exhumation of 40 bodies near Donetsk.
    Forensic specialists analyzed the dead bodies, and came to the conclusion that they had been shot.
    The victims had their hands tied behind their backs.
    Separatists discovered the mass graves in areas that were occupied by Ukrainian National Guard, up until September 21.

  10. yalensis says:

    Meanwhile, to this day there is still fighting going on at Donetsk airport.
    That conflict has been frozen for quite some time: Ukrainian National Guard are holed up inside one of the terminals. They are surrounded, and can’t break out. Separatists, on the other hand, cannot fully clear the Ukes out and re-take the airport. So, it has been a stalemate, tying up many resources, and also a source of destruction: National Guard continue to shell the surrounding residential areas from the safety of their airport terminal.

    Last night, some Uke units from without attempted to break through blockade, in order to pull out blockaded National Guard.

    One of the terminals caught on fire.
    Separatists managed to fight off the Uke soldiers.
    Two civiiians were killed in the crossfire and shelling.

    • Moscow Exile says:

      Couldn’t they make use of a tactical nuclear device?

    • ThatJ says:

      Isn’t the airport in the city itself?

      “Last night, some Uke units from without attempted to break through blockade, in order to pull out blockaded National Guard.”

      Sounds like the Ukies are all over the place and only Donetsk is barely hanging on. I thought the area held by the rebels would not allow the Ukies to come close to the airport.

      Btw, the blockaded goyim if captured should rot in jail, to say the least. They are shelling residential areas for pure sadism. To say they ‘hoped’ — through luck or providence — to hit a rebel in the shelling of residential areas miles way isn’t going to fool anyone.

      Any news on the withdrawal of the army from Donbass? There were confirmed reports a few days ago, did it stop?

      • ThatJ says:

        They were withdrawing from some cities, but it seemed unclear why.

        They are either leaving for good (if the ceasefire agreement is respected) or will be used somewhere else (if Porky obeys the neocon directives).

      • Moscow Exile says:

        Donetsk Sergei Prokoviev Airport is situated <about 5 miles northwest of Donetsk city centre.

      • “Sounds like the Ukies are all over the place and only Donetsk is barely hanging on. I thought the area held by the rebels would not allow the Ukies to come close to the airport.”

        The ceasefire gave junta time and resources to regroup and rearm.

        • Moscow Exile says:

          The end is nigh!

          Yeah and I say unto ye, they shall be cast into a furnace of fire and there shall be much wailing and gnashing of teeth!

        • marknesop says:

          Putin threw the Novorossiyans under the bus, in exchange for recognition of Crimea as Russian territory.

          • Al says:

            We few, we merry few Under the Bus deniers, pushed to the margins of society and eking out a miserable existence virtually on internet blogs, pilloried and laughed at for our beliefs….

            There’s even a children’s song about it:
            outube.com/watch?v=OD7tBTk0NRc

            This might help:
            outube.com/watch?v=fZ9WiuJPnNA

            I blame my 4 y/o niece.

            For colliemum, the anthem of the European Union at the appropriate level:
            outube.com/watch?v=xpcUxwpOQ_A

            For Mark:
            outube.com/watch?v=MTwq1_9VH68

            Must. Stop. Posting. Excellent. Videos.

            • Moscow Exile says:

              I always thought the old Eurovision Te Deum would have been better as a European anthem than “Ode to Joy”.

              What is there to be joyful about, Herr bloody Schiller?

              Go on, tell me!

              The brotherhood of man (alle Menschen werden Brüder), you say?

              Sexist!
              🙂

              • Al says:

                A British friend of mine suggested he may be the German cousin of:

                outube.com/watch?v=dsj29y7URNk

              • Southerncross says:

                ‘Bruder, uberm sternenzelt muss ein lieber vater wohnen’

                How can the EU have that as its anthem when it more or less openly regards Christianity as an embarrassing hangover from the past, that should go extinct as quickly as possible?

                They really ought to junk the ‘Ode to Joy’. I’m sure there are many powerful and uplifting atheist hymns they can use….

  11. ThatJ says:

    Ukraine Pushes for NATO Membership as Gas Talks Commence

    Ukraine kick-started the process to strengthen ties with NATO and join the alliance in the “short term” after President Petro Poroshenko declared the worst of its separatist war was over.

    The country of more than 40 million people is holding talks today in Berlin to resolve a dispute over natural gas supply before the onset of winter. Russia stopped selling the fuel to Ukraine in June without pre-payment after raising the price 81 percent, which has prompted officials in Kiev to urge companies and households to cut consumption. Russian gas exporter OAO Gazprom (GAZP) says Ukraine owes it $5.3 billion.

    Ukraine’s push to end its neutral status and join the North Atlantic Treaty Organization will probably exacerbate the worst standoff between Russia and its former Cold War foes since the fall of the Iron Curtain. Sporadic fighting between pro-Russian rebels and government troops in the eastern Donetsk region of the former Soviet Republic is threatening a shaky cease-fire reached three weeks ago.

    “The cabinet has submitted a draft law to parliament that envisages the cancellation of our non-aligned status and ensuring a European integration course to create grounds for Ukraine’s integration into the Euro-Atlantic security space,” the administration in Kiev said in an e-mailed statement today. “Ukraine’s government underlines that Ukraine’s aim is to receive special partner status with NATO now and membership in the short term.”

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-09-26/ukraine-pushes-for-nato-membership-as-gas-talks-commence.html

  12. Al says:

    euractiv: Germany wants investment clause scrapped in EU-Canada trade deal
    Germany will not sign a trade pact between Canada and the European Union unless an investment protection clause allowing companies to take cross-border legal action against governments is scrapped, Germany’s economy minister said on Thursday (25 September)….

    ###
    Welcome news. The ability of private corporations to sue nation states clause is seriously nasty and would undermine whatever basic social protections European countries provide. I hope they dump it from the TTIP. We’ve seen how the US treats healthcare as simply another business for making profit rather than having a healthy population who can work and that other nations run much, much more efficient health systems that are not so brutally capitalist as the US.

  13. ThatJ says:

    Will Russia and China Hold Their Fire Until War Is the Only Alternative?

    Paul Craig Roberts

    Obama’s September 24 speech at the UN is the most absurd thing I have heard in my entire life. It is absolutely amazing that the president of the United States would stand before the entire world and tell what everyone knows are blatant lies while simultaneously demonstrating Washington’s double standards and belief that Washington alone, because the US is exceptional and indispensable, has the right to violate all law.

    It is even more amazing that every person present did not get up and walk out of the assembly.

    The diplomats of the world actually sat there and listened to blatant lies from the world’s worst terrorist. They even clapped their approval.

    The rest of the speech was just utter bullshit: “We stand at a crossroads,” “signposts of progress,” “reduced chance of war between major powers,” “hundreds of millions lifted from poverty,” and while ebola ravages Africa “we’ve learned how to cure disease and harness the power of the wind and the sun.” We are now God. “We” is comprised of the “exceptional people”–Americans. No one else counts. “We” are it.

    It is impossible to pick the most absurd statement in Obama’s speech or the most outrageous lie. Is it this one? “Russian aggression in Europe recalls the days when large nations trampled small ones in pursuit of territorial ambition.”

    Or is it this one? “After the people of Ukraine mobilized popular protests and calls for reform, their corrupt president fled. Against the will of the government in Kiev, Crimea was annexed. Russia poured arms into eastern Ukraine, fueling violent separatists and a conflict that has killed thousands. When a civilian airliner was shot down from areas that these proxies controlled, they refused to allow access to the crash for days. When Ukraine started to reassert control over its territory, Russia gave up the pretense of merely supporting the separatists, and moved troops across the border.”

    http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/09/25/will-russia-china-hold-fire-war-alternative-paul-craig-roberts/

    • NorthernStar says:

      So what would you expect from this clown war criminal puppet of TPTB???
      Most agree that THIS speech cost MLK his life:

      ….But that was then…this is now.
      ….for now

  14. Terje says:

    A hilarious sketch from german television, well worth a watch. (It has optional english subtitles.)

    “But we fight for freedom of speech!”

    “Yes, in Russia! not here!!”

    • Al says:

      outube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jSOfQ7tgTLg#t=394
      -the editor union of the First channel criticizes its own reports on Ukraine as biased and one-sided!…

      – Oh my God! A satirical program on the 2nd German channel is laughing at German journalists!

      – No! Immediately, immediately! I order you: block them with prohibitions for publishing, so that they can’t make a move!

      – We don’t have time for this already.

      – No, it’s exactly for this we have “Time”, damn!

      (The newspaper ‘Time’ (Zeit) got an injunction against ZDF which prohibited the airing of an earlier episode of ‘Die Anstalt’, that questioned the impartiality of the publisher ‘Time’)
      ###

      Media Freedom July 30: Germany: Interim injunction issued against satirical TV show
      http://mediafreedom.ushahidi.com/reports/view/240
      Two journalists from the weekly newspaper Die Zeit had their request approved for an interim injunction against the satirical television show Die Anstalt.

      An April 29 episode of Die Anstalt named various journalists who the satirical show claimed have ties to lobby groups and organizations that represent the interests of the United States – including Josef Joffe and Jochen Bittner from Die Zeit. Joffe and Bittner argued that the satirical show relied on false information about their involvement with the organizations. A host of Die Anstalt said in a statement that the information was not false, but the wording describing the journalists’ involvement may have been imprecise.

      German media reported on July 29 about Joffe and Bittner’s successful request for an interim injunction against Die Anstalt’s carrier, public television channel ZDF. The episode mentioning Joffe and Bittner had to be removed from ZDF’s online archive; it is still available on Youtube. A spokesperson for ZDF told the media news website Meedia that the television channel is appealing the decision.
      ###

      Here’s the offending program:
      outube.com/watch?v=Z40ZgW9dwHQ

      And just the scene:

      Here’s Angela’s take, with Russian subs:
      outube.com/watch?v=fnIDkc4DNng

  15. NorthernStar says:

    Reign of (USA Foreign Policy) Error:
    http://rt.com/news/190868-turkey-syria-kurds-is/

  16. Al says:

    The UK Parliament has voted 524 v. 43 to take part in bombing IS:
    http://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-politics-29362884

    Make decisions in haste, repent at leisure. The merry roundabout goes on.

  17. NorthernStar says:

    Obama speaking sharply to Cameron……”HEEL BITCH”
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0926/648130-syria/

  18. Warren says:

    Has Donetsk Airport been liberated?

    • kirill says:

      The underground bunkers are still in the control of the regime scum, so it has not been won yet. Apparently, DNR forces suffered heavy casualties trying to take this real estate. The “Oplot” unit lost 5 tanks and their crews plus others killed.

      The aim of getting the airport is to deny regime forces a position to shell Donetsk. I guess the ceasefire does not apply to regime forces.

      • ThatJ says:

        Apparently, DNR forces suffered heavy casualties trying to take this real estate. The “Oplot” unit lost 5 tanks and their crews plus others killed.

        When was this, recently? What I know is that months ago almost half a hundred rebels died trying to take the airport.

        It’s incredible that the regime forces have not run out of ammo yet, considering they are not getting re-supplied.

        • ThatJ says:

          Honestly, I don’t think the junta loyalists will get out of the airport alive.

        • kirill says:

          http://rusvesna.su/news/1411759820

          The losses were on September 25. The Oplot battalion was keeping the regime scum from breaking out of the encirclement at the airport. The scum have been trying to get out on numerous occasions.

          The reason DNR forces are not letting them escape is because they are war criminals who slaughtered civilians in Donetsk with artillery fire. But it is Porosyuk who should be strung up with piano wire along with the rest of the Kiev junta.

  19. Warren says:

    • marknesop says:

      I wonder if Germany’s announcement that it would be supplying $90 Million worth of military equipment to the Kurds has anything to do with Turkey’s abrupt u-turn and abject capitualtion to the cause of western rolling mayhem.

      The west is taking this well beyond economic war, and appears to be pushing hard for actual global combat. I noticed earlier that American forces in Syria are bombing oil facilities, which they describe as “makeshift” and used to finance ISIS, from which they are allegedly making $1 to $3 Million per day. That’s not bad for a makeshift operation. Who, precisely, are they fencing these sales through? Why can’t the western financial community track them down and shut off their money?

      • NorthernStar says:

        Well Mark….tAs you well know, the ‘logic’ of lunatics supports ANY conceivable argument (rationalization)..no matter how warped and perverted it stands in relation to common sense and fact based reality.
        As I noted..any part of the planet is subject to being designated as
        a ‘terrorist’ related haven or sanctuary…and hence part of the ever global NATO/USA ever growing free fire zone!!!

      • Fern says:

        Yes, that’s the $64,000 questions isn’t it – why isn’t the western financial community interested in following the money when it comes to IS/ISIS/ISIL? Cutting off the money would be the most effective way of dealing with this group and others like it. The west doesn’t do this, of course, because the money trail will lead back to our ‘allies’ in Saudi and the Gulf States – you know, the same guys ‘we’ are partnering to destroy IS. Friend and NATO ally, Turkey, has been heavily involved in the ‘Assad must go’ movement and in the creation and ‘feeding’ of IS and all the other shape-shifting, amoeba-like movements that preceded it.

  20. Warren says:

    • Moscow Exile says:

      Россия согреет Украину

      Another bloody discount!

      I’d tell the bastards to kiss my arse and give them sweet FA.

      On Friday evening in Berlin there ended negotiations between Russia, the Ukraine and the EU over gas. The Ukraine will not freeze: she agreed to settle her debt and has received a discount.

      The gas price for the Ukraine is now $385 per thousand cubic metres. The Ukraine this winter will get for that price 5 billion cubic metres of gas, but on a prepayment basis; that is to say: first pay, then you get it. The new price is less than $100 than the one asked for before by Gazprom, but this discount is not forever; it’s just for the winter, for six months, said energy Minister Alexander Novak.

      And a Russian commentator to KP writes: “And Yukies want to put up a wall along the border and they hate Russia, but we give them free gas. And my mother in a village keeps warm with a wood stove, is surrounded by a forest, yet the firewood is expensive – and there’s no gas.

      • apc27 says:

        One cannot really say that Russians bent under pressure here though. Both the price and the accompanying conditions are, after all, exactly the same as the ones Ukrainians walked away from the last time round.

      • marknesop says:

        “It’s interesting to see Oettinger eager to announce a gas deal, before an agreement has actually been signed and sealed – clearly the Europeans are desperate for Ukraine to accept almost anything so that West Europeans don’t freeze this winter,” writes Tim Ash of Standard Bank. “The Ukrainians seem to be saying, hey, wait a minute, there is no deal until we agree to it… and the offer of USD385 per tcm, with a USD100 per tcm temporary discount, looks very similar to what was on offer months ago.”

        Ultimately I think this remains a victory for Putin and Russia, since the USA and EU strutted and whooped about getting off the Russian gas tit forever, oceans of cheap LNG, bla, bla, bla, and now they are openly jubilant about a deal in which they bind themselves to Russian supplies once again. The devil is indeed, as the article says, in the details, however.

        http://www.bne.eu/content/story/ceasefire-gas-war-russia-and-ukraine-near-deal-over-gas-price-debts?piano_t=1

        For instance, I note the Ukies only have to pay $2 Billion of their debt up front, while they continue their efforts to haul Gazprom before European arbitration to determine if the $5 Billion figure is legit. That Imp of Satan Prodan has already argued that the discounted price must not be seen so, but must be the finalized commercial price. This, according to him, is “principal” for Ukraine and will doubtless be a springboard for more squabbling and refusals to pay in future. And Ukraine is pushing the ludicrous position that “payments to Russia that Moscow regarded as debt could be prepayment for future deliveries, in order not to jeopardise Ukraine’s position in adjudication in Stockholm.” I can see that morphing into squeals that Russia is trying to make Ukraine pay twice for the same gas if the decision goes against Ukraine.

        Ukraine also successfully spooked the EU that Russia was going to cut off their gas, when there was no indication it planned to do anything of the kind other than the firm position against reverse-flowing gas. And obviously, that achieved its purpose and brought the EU and its delinquent would-be child back to the negotiating table without Russia having had to change its position at all.

  21. NorthernStar says:

    http://www.timesofoman.com/News/40385/Article-Ukraine-rebels-to-hold-presidential-poll-on-November-2
    “But the Minsk deal had put on the back burner all issues concerning claims by the separatist regions for full independence from their foes in Kiev.”
    Well it appears as if Independent status ‘soup’s on’ again-at least as far as the NAF folk are concerned.
    Here’s an interesting historical tidbit:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic
    Belarus and Ukraine-as part(s) of the former USSR-had their own UN seats…Hmmm…

    The shaky peace pact has helped stem the bloodiest fighting. But it has not averted a fresh bid by the eastern insurgents to set up independent republics through parliamentary and leadership polls on November 2.
    ***Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko called Thursday on Russia not to recognise the votes and vowed to pursue a goal of the unified country applying for EU membership in 2020 and eventually joining NATO.***
    How can Putin possibly NOT respect the VOTE????
    Bottom line: The NAF DPR/LPR folk should tell the Pork thing and his fascist bedfellows to go F themselves, i.e. there will be no “unified” Ukraine joining fucking NATO in 2020 or 2070..0r 2100.
    End of story. The fascists NEED the East for reasons we all know well….but not vice versa!

  22. ThatJ says:

    ISIS Comes To America? Oklahoma Man Beheads Woman After Being Fired

    A man who had been fired from a food processing plant in an Oklahoma City suburb beheaded a woman with a knife and was attacking another worker when he was shot and wounded by a company official, police said Friday. As AP reports, while questioning the suspect’s co-workers, investigators learned he had recently started trying to convert several employees to Islam. As the director of news and information for the Islamic Society of Greater Oklahoma City stated, “they have this ISIS thing on their minds and now this guy has brought it to America.”

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-26/isis-comes-america-oklahoma-man-beheads-woman-after-being-fired

    Germany’s Eurosceptic AfD spells end to Europe’s false calm, warns S&P

    Standard & Poor’s has issued an extraordinary credit alert on the eurozone, one that deserves close attention.

    It warns that the rise of Germany’s AfD anti-euro party calls into question the euro bail-out machinery and queries the pitch for any form of QE, stimulus that has already been pocketed and spent in advance by the markets.

    It will force Angela Merkel to take a tougher line on Europe, and further complicates the management of the (already dysfunctional) currency bloc.

    The rating agency said it will henceforth monitor any sign that Germany is digging in its heels on EMU matters as it seeks to head off this rising political threat. The report is written by Moritz Kraemer, head of sovereign ratings in Europe. He is German. This is not an Anglo-Saxon analysis.

    Alternative für Deutschland is blowing across Germany like a tornado. The party won 12.6pc in Brandenburg and 10.6pc in Thuringia a week ago, following its success in Saxony. It has now broken into three regional parliaments. The free market FDP is being systematically destroyed. Now AfD is ripping into the Left-wing base of Die Linke as well.

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/ambroseevans-pritchard/100028199/germanys-eurosceptic-afd-spells-end-to-europes-false-calm-warns-sp/

    Could Iran Be Trading Oil With Russia For Nuclear Support?

    With the help of a few former Soviet neighbors, Iran is set to revitalize their crude oil exports after the profound effect of past sanctions.

    Not only has Russia offered to provide goods and services in return for Iranian oil, Azerbaijan and Kazakhstan have proposed reinstating oil swap deals. Oil swaps in general are not new, as they are often used to optimize logistical obstacles. In Iran’s case, it is the supply of crude oil to their refineries in the north from countries closer than Iran’s own oil fields in the south. An oil-for-goods arrangement has also occurred in the past, notably with Saddam Hussein’s Iraq trading oil for food under the auspices of the United Nations.

    However, the sanctions against Iran by American and European countries do not make allowances for any such humanitarian trade. Therefore, coordinated efforts by Russia, Azerbaijan, and Kazakhstan could potentially bring more Iranian oil into the global oil market. Iran has offered nearly 500,000 barrels a day to Russia to export from their southern ports in exchange for food and electricity generation expertise. An excess of more than 500,000 barrels a day from Iran, most likely directed at India and China, will notably alter regional oil demand requirements.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-26/could-iran-be-trading-oil-russia-nuclear-support

    Ukraine PM Cries “Russia Wants Us To Freeze” As Locals Prepare For A Long, Cold Winter

    We would like to be able to commiserate with Ukraine’s US-muppet regime, we really would, but when Ukraine’s PM Argeny Yatseniuk, or Yats as he is known to Victoria Nuland, almost cried in an interview with Reuters yesterday when he pleaded that “[Russia] wants us to freeze… This is the aim and this is another trump card in Russian hands…. So, except military offense, except military operation against Ukraine, they have another trump card, which is energy”. we have just two things to say to him: i) he is absolutely correct, about Russia having the trump card that is – something obvious to everyone with half a brain from the start of the conflict, and ii) perhaps Ukraine should finally pay Gazprom not only for the gas they would like to use in the future, but also the gas they have already used and payment for which is overdue and which the IMF, i.e., the US taxpayer, gave Ukraine explicit money to pay for and instead was embezzled by the people in power.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-26/ukraine-pm-cries-russia-wants-us-freeze-locals-prepare-long-cold-winter

    • Fern says:

      ThatJ, you’re obviously forgetting ‘Yats’ was the Chosen One, the one with the “governing experience” according to Victoria Nuland. He was the best of the bunch. Ye gods, what were the rest of the pack like?

  23. marknesop says:

    Whooo…. I must have missed this one when France tried to slide it under the doormat back in 2013.

    http://www.themoscowtimes.com/article/russia-fights-to-keep-veto-right-in-un-security-council/507926.html

    Apparently France, carrying on the tradition of Nickie Sarkozy (it might even have been written by or for him) introduced a motion at the United Nations that veto rights of members could be suspended ” in the event of grave crimes against humanity that mandate urgent reaction”. I imagine a few of you can see how that one could and would be misused. No time for discussion, I’m afraid – grave crime against humanity detected in Damascus, urgent reaction mandate complete, must bomb now.

    Can I ask….what would be the point of a vote, in that case? Any country could make a case that there was a grave crime against humanity going on, a no-fly zone was needed yesterday and troops on the ground in the morning. If it was one of the usual western hoodlums, the others would do their bobble-head act and vote for it, and the vote would pass with the usual arm-twisting. Russia and China would vote against it or abstain, and lose every time. No vetoes allowed. I guess Sammy Powers’ R2P doctrine was not quite enough perversion of impartiality and did not quite load the more-war-now dice quite far enough in the west’s favour.

    Whenever the game does not go in the west’s favour, it simply rewrites the rules until you have to let it have its way. I have gradually come around to the realization that America has squandered all its soft power, and nobody is falling for it any more. All it has left is naked force, and what is more, America realizes it, too. That’s why they just go through the motions when they try that old regime-change mojo now, and are always ready to go straight to the military card. I do not count the current economic war against Russia, because that is neither hard nor soft power, but pure fabrication.

    • Fern says:

      This demand to either remove the veto power of Russia (and China) or, better still – in the eyes of its proponents – remove Russia (and China) from the UNSC really got going when they vetoed a number of resolutions on Syria. Denying the west the legitimacy it needed for its ‘Assad must go’ campaign obviously couldn’t go unpunished. Of course, it’s only Russian and Chinese use of the veto that’s important; the endless resolutions condemning the behaviours and actions of Israel which the US routinely vetoes don’t seem to provoke the same level of condemnation.

      • kirill says:

        China has more people than the whole of NATO aka the west. Latin America is not really the west given how it acts internationally, i.e. it does not bootlick Washington. It is the rogue state called US and its pals in the EU that need to be kicked off the Security Council.

        The UN should be moved to a neutral location. I propose Brazil.

      • marknesop says:

        And those would be unaffected, because they would not constitute an immediate humanitarian crisis.

    • colliemum says:

      Cynical old me might suggest that Russia and China club together and propose to remove the Veto right from the USA, for human rights violations, especially racism, inside the USA: Ferguson, the ‘militarisation’ of the police, etc and so forth.
      Both Obama and his Attorney General Holder would be forced to support that move because it’s what they’ve been proclaiming ever since in office, wouldn’t they?
      Fickle France without the poison dwarf would surely have to agree, as would the UK to show they’re not racist …

      • marknesop says:

        Many would agree, but in an actual vote the USA’s cronies would protect it from any censure. Once they likely would have believed with all their hearts and souls that the USA meant well and that, on balance, it had done far more good than harm, and they’d have been right. But as I suggested earlier, the USA (meaning official America and not its population as a whole) has used up its soft power in pursuit of unworthy goals, and has only the mailed fist left. However, on the UN its cronies are still represented by people who admire the mailed fist and are eager to facilitate American aggression. But Russia and China could never leave the UN in protest, because the west would happily close ranks and things would always break their way after that – Russia and China are the swing vote.

        An action such as you describe would generate a great deal of outraged spluttering, but it would never pass.

  24. yalensis says:

    More info on what is happening at Donetsk airport.
    According to linked piece, the Uke units occupying the airport renewed their shelling of the city on 25 September. Separatists were forced to launch an attack on the airport, to try to get them to stop the shelling of the populated micro-regions around the airport.

    Hence, separatists entered the territory of the airport and engaged National Guard, with losses on both sides.
    National Guard have been trying to break out of encirclement, but have not been successful.

    As for how they (Ukies) are being re-supplied at the airport, I am not 100% sure, but I think some limited flights are still coming in and resupplying them with ammo.

    • yalensis says:

      I don’t know why, but some link tags suddenly are not working:

      http://lifenews.ru/news/141530

    • Warren says:

      It is unacceptable for the Donetsk airport to remain in Ukie control – why has the NAF not shelled the airport with artillery and destroyed it? Why has it been so difficult for the NAF to dislodge the Ukies from the airport?

    • astabada says:

      This whole affair of the Donetsk airport demonstrates one thing. The whole story about hordes of NAF troops overrunning Mariupol and (according to some people) even further oblasts is pure fantasy.

      Perhaps a truce was not the worst idea after all, if the NAF cannot stop the mere resupplying of artillery units encircled at the airport, let alone storm the whole area.

      • Moscow Exile says:

        Nay, Donetsk airport is just a pocket encircled by some NAF troops whilst the majority of separatists are sweeping all before them on their victorious march on Kiev and thence to Lvov and Ivano-Frankivsk, just as the victorious Red Army marched on to Berlin in 1945, leaving Breslau (Now Wrocław,Poland), designated Festung Breslau (fortress Breslau) by Gröfaz Hitler, encircled.

        In fact, Breslau only capitulated to the Red Army on May 6 after Berlin had fallen and was the last major city in Germany to surrender, which it did only 2 days before the German capitulation.

        Not a lot of people know that!
        🙂 .

      • astabada says:

        I must admit I was one of the many, in this case.

      • marknesop says:

        An airport by nature is a difficult place to take as a military objective except by massive force or from a distance such as with artillery or missiles. Everything that might snag an aircraft on final approach – such as trees and other cover – has been removed and the airport is generally in the flattest place the builders could find, with no hills for concealment. It’s pretty much a rush across open ground against a well-sited and protected enemy with good cover and evidently plenty of ammunition. And food as well, I guess, or they could just starve them out. Resupply aircraft must still be getting in. That’s a factor the NAF could do something about.

  25. Moscow Exile says:

    And now even the West’s favourite never-once-elected-to-office-by-a-popular-mandate democratic politician, Mikhail Gorbachev lambasts the US of A:

    Горбачев ответил Обаме: Главная мировая лихорадка – это Америка и ее претензии на лидерство

    Gorbachev replies to Obama: The chief global sickness is America and its pretensions to leadership

    Former Soviet leader comments on the US president’s announcement that Russia is a major global threat along with disease Ebola

    The first president of the USSR thinks that in such a complex situation, the Russian government is adopting the right position. “One should not lose one’s head and one’s common sense. We are a strong nation: we should be listened to and be allowed to speak”, he said

    Ex-USSR president Mikhail Gorbachev called the USA “a major disease” of the world when commenting upon Barak Obama”s speech at the 69th UN General Assembly, in which he said that Russia was one of the major global threats along with the disease Ebola as well as with terrorists in Syria and Iraq. “We have one major sickness and that is America and its pretensions to leadership”, said the former Soviet leader whilst on air with the Russian News Service. This is not even political dialogue but abuse that is intended to provoke, to rub up the wrong way and, in the main, to prevent an abatement of strife in Europe. This is because they claim to have a monopoly over saying what goes on in the Ukraine, over everything, and that is what this is all about.

    Boris the drunk wouldn’t have reneged after such a fashion, I’m sure.

    In 2011 they had a star-studded mega-bash in the Royal Albert Hall, London, for Gorbachev’s 80th birthday.

    He’s approaching his 85th birthday now.

    I reckon he’ll be celebrating it in his Moscow flat.

    • Fern says:

      Gorbachev has, occasionally, done yeoman service for Russia – he wrote a good piece in the Washington Post at the time of Georgia’a aggression in South Ossetia spelling out that the western presentation of this as Russian aggression was totally false. Because he is so highly regarded in the west, it does make him harder to ignore than any current Russian politician.

      • Moscow Exile says:

        He also criticized the Western adulation of Khodorkovsky, but nobody in the West paid a blind bit of notice of it.

        • Moscow Exile says:

          The protest movement would continue to grow and, if Mr Putin responded with repression, Mr Gorbachev said, ‘then society will respond appropriately’. He added: ‘If he tries to address problems by means of ‘special measures’, this will be a grave mistake. He may be forced to leave before the end of his term if he tries those methods’” – Gorbachev, 2012

          “With his talent for tax-dodging he would have been behind bars in America long ago,” said Mr Gorbachev. – Gorbachev on Khodorkovsky.

          • Moscow Exile says:

            I should imagine that at the moment Gorbachev ranks amongst Russians as second only to Makarevich in the unpopularity league table. The most common pejorative I hear off the natives when his name is mentioned is “traitor”.

            Of course, what Western journalists report about Russia is what counts in the “International Community”, and what they have been saying ever since the appointment of the Chosen One, Navalny, following the commencement of Putin’s present presidential term of office is that the disaffected, oppressed Russians are straining at the leash to overthrow the tyranny.
            🙂

        • marknesop says:

          Who has expressed an interest in “getting back into the political melee“, hoping to fool all of the people all of the time. Riffing off Yatsie – with whom he shares an apparent affection for dork eyeglasses – he announces that his Russia will have “European values”. Dog-whistle code for “western NGO’s line up behind my regime-change initiative, and flood my coffers with money”. Give Khodorkovsky credit; he has sat down and studied how he might be wealthy and influential once again, and reached the reasonable conclusion that Yukos and similar entrepreneurial schemes are likely beyond him now. The west will be happy to finance him as a thorn in Putin’s flesh and trumpet his popularity with the Russian electorate out of all proportion to reality, which will be an even more egregious inflation considering Khodorkovsky himself will pre-puff it, while if he by some miracle managed to win, the sky would be the limit. What’s not to like, if you’re Khodorkovsky?

  26. colliemum says:

    I don’t want to go OT on the new thread, so allow me to post the best photo from the Annual Conference (UKIP) just coming to a close – the best photo for me, for entirely obvious reasons!

    I couldn’t really resist, could I!

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