I Don’t Know Where I’m Going, But I Sure Know Where I’ve Been.

Uncle Volodya says, "History is a relentless master. It has no present, only the past rushing into the future. To try to hold fast is to be swept aside.”

Uncle Volodya says, “History is a relentless master. It has no present, only the past rushing into the future. To try to hold fast is to be swept aside.”

Yes, I know that’s David Coverdale, and he’s not Ukrainian. Actually, he was born in Saltburn-By-The-Sea, so let’s just thank him for a neat title, forgive him for his stint with Deep Purple, and move on.

My patience in waiting for another guest post to appear (I prefer to call it that rather than idleness, for obvious reasons) has been richly rewarded, and our friend and colleague Marko Marjanovic (whom we also know as hoct, the Hero Of Crappy Town) has stepped up to the plate with an extremely interesting article on the motivations which have led the people of the Donbas to remove themselves from the Ukrainian lemming-march to Yurrup. The mainstream media persist in casting the people of the region as “pro-Russian rebels”. Are they, really? Sometimes yes, sometimes not so much. While they would most likely be very appreciative of Russian help if it would keep the Ukrainian army off their necks, many – perhaps most – are interested in carving out their own space in history rather than being part of a common heritage, either Russian or Ukrainian. Take it away, Marko;

The Rebellion in East Ukraine Is a Civic Revolution, Not an Ethnic Insurgency

Have you noticed how the English-language media describes the rebels in Donbass? Most of the time it deems them “pro-Russian rebels” which is a little bit like describing the Patriot faction of the American Revolution the “pro-French rebels”. Surely the rebels see Russia in a positive light, but surely that is tangential to what really makes them tick. However, a designation of this sort must at least be commended in the sense that it is an admission on the part of the English-language press of how little it is certain of. Most of the time all it knows is that the rebs like Russia, and does not to try to guess at the rest.

It is at other times that the media has feigned knowledge where they could have done real damage. In a minority of cases, reports and commentary have designated the rebels the “ethnic Russian rebels”. This seems convenient, and doubtless gives the outsiders a sense of clarity and certainty, but that is precisely what is so dangerous about this extraordinarily misleading characterization.

Once the anti-government faction is deemed to be made up of “ethnic Russian rebels” the story becomes a familiar one. The rebels are Russians and they are fighting because they are Russians. It is an inter-ethnic conflict between Russians and Ukrainians. Only, it is not.

Regardless of how great or important one thinks the differences between Ukrainians and Russians are, the fact is that in the limited geographic space of south-eastern Ukraine, and particularly in Donbass, this distinction is neither great nor significant to the people who live there. Ukrainians and Russians in south-eastern Ukraine are part of the same ethnic coalition, and have been amalgamating into one body ever since these lands were first opened to colonization from historic Ukraine and Russia proper. The British-Ukrainian historian Taras Kuzio put it this way[1]:

“Identities in eastern-southern Ukraine are a mixture of local, east Slavic and Soviet. While recognising that they are different to Russians living across the former Soviet internal administrative, now Ukrainian-Russian, interstate border they do not differentiate between Russians and Ukrainians within eastern-southern Ukraine. They are all, after all, Russian-speakers in a region where all national cultures had largely been eradicated in urban centres and where few people are religious. Linguistic, religious or cultural markers of separate identity between Ukrainians or Russians in eastern-southern Ukraine do not therefore really exist.”

The peculiarity of identity in south-eastern Ukraine actually goes further than that. The identity of many people in the region appears fluid and ambiguous. When asked whether they are Russian or Ukrainian they are not necessarily in a position to give a simple answer, and may resent being pressed to do so. Numerous people regard themselves at least somewhat Ukrainian and at least somewhat Russian at the same time.

Thus a poll carried out in Ukraine in 1997 found that if given a range of choices a quarter of respondents across the country gave their identity as both Ukrainian and Russian at the same time. 56% of those asked declared themselves to be Ukrainians, 11% to be Russians, but 27% opted for some variant of Russian-Ukrainian and Ukrainian-Russian.[2]

Indeed, the last Soviet population census found Ukraine to be inhabited by 37.5 million Ukrainians and 11.3 million Russians, but the first and only population census carried out in independent Ukraine found 37.5 million Ukrainians and 8.3 million Russians instead. The reason the number of census Ukrainians could stay constant while the number of census Russians fell by 25% is clear. Upwards of 2 million people had transferred their census nationality from Russian to Ukrainian.

It should be understood that there is no sharp Russian-Ukrainian ethnic dichotomy across large swathes of Ukraine, and furthermore it is precisely in the Donbass region that has risen up in rebellion to the government in Kyiv that this dichotomy is the weakest. Instead of a sharp delineation between the two ethnic communities there is an amalgamated Russian-Ukrainian community and a great deal of fluidity and ambiguity between the two nationalities. Numerous people are comfortable identifying as both Ukrainian and Russian at the same time, and furthermore do not believe there is, or should be, any great difference between the two. The fight then is clearly not between Russian and Ukrainian. The war is not about who the rebels in the south-east are, but what they believe in.

The rebels and their most ardent supporters no longer believe in Ukrainian nation-building. They do not conceive of the Ukraine as the proper political unit for them. This is apparent from their rejection of Ukrainian national symbols and ambition to build up local people’s republics. Many may have considerable, or even mainly, Ukrainian ethnic ancestry, but do not consider themselves part of the Ukrainian political nation. Some are happy to concede that they are Ukrainian, but do not want Ukrainians as a separate political nation from other East Slavs.

Just as numerous citizens of Ukraine between 1989 and 2001 transferred their census nationality from Russian to Ukrainian, so numerous Ukrainians (particularly Russians-Ukrainians) can transfer their allegiance away from Ukrainian nation-building and decide that their proper political community is not the Republic of Ukraine, but the People’s Republic of Donetsk/Lugansk or the Confederation of Novorossia.

The Donbass rebellion is not a war of the kind we have seen in the Balkans with its sharp ethno-national divisions. It is more like the American Revolution, or the American Civil War. It is a rebellion of people who no longer subscribe to the Ukrainian national project, but who are not necessarily ethnically distinct from those who continue to do so. It is neither a rebellion of Russian-speaking Ukrainians nor of ethnic Russians. It is a rebellion of those Ukrainian citizens who want to remove themselves from the project of Ukrainian nation-building.

[1] Taras Kuzio, Ukraine: State and Nation Building (London: Routledge, 1998), 73-74.

[2] Oxana Shevel, “Nationality in Ukraine: Some Rules of Engagement,” East European Politics and Societies 16, no. 2 (2002): 387-417. citing Andrew Wilson, The Ukrainians: Unexpected Nation (New Haven: Yale University Press, 2000), 219.

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1,110 Responses to I Don’t Know Where I’m Going, But I Sure Know Where I’ve Been.

    • kirill says:

      The Russian media is accused of toeing the Kremlin line but it is OK for some freaking media oligarch in the west to use a large part of it as his personal bully pulpit. Murdoch also owns Faux News. Not exactly small potatoes media.

      Of course the alleged conformity of the Russian media is Kiev level propaganda BS. It shows more seriously differing viewpoints than any of the mainstream western media. Also, Russian media is not a state run monolith. There is plenty of opposition media that acts like it is untouchable and puts of non-conforming and 5th column narratives like you would never find in the “free” western media.

    • marknesop says:

      The Drum laughs at Abbott’s discomfiture over his tough talk pre-summit and his patty-paws please-Sir treatment of Putin in practice, and suggests he would dearly love to turn back time and erase his shirtfront moment. it also points out how silly the hysteria over the Russian ships is.

      But I was interested in the hard numbers. Abbott is even more unpopular than I thought. His approval rating minus his disapproval figure has him currently at -15. There’s unpopular, and then there’s “negative unpopular”. But the man knows how to confront out-of-control spending, you have to give him that: “As recently as April, this year, Tony Abbott re-iterated that Australia is “dealing with a debt and deficit disaster”. Yet in the first three months of this financial year the net debt has increased from around $200 billion to $220 billion. The deficit is on the same trajectory.” You have to admit, not everyone would have thought the best way to deal with a $200 Billion debt was to make it $20 Billion larger in three months – it’s certainly a bold strategy. Let’s see where he goes with it: I have to confess I’m mystified.

      Meanwhile, chalk up another win for Putin – Abbott 0, Putin 1.

  1. Terje says:

    There is a long history of stuff like this down under:
    Crimean War 1853-1856
    During the [[Crimean] war the image of Russia was formed under the influence of several factors, and, of course, most of all, under the influence of England, and, hence, her Australian colonies, being at war against Russia. […]At a higher level the newspapers spoke of «unrighteous» or «monstrous invasion» of the Russians, «the aggression of the strong upon the weak», «Russian intrigue… in Paris and Vienna», «Russian insolence», portraying Russia as an aggressor, covering himself with words about the “holy war”. “Russia, the enemy” had become the leitmotif of numerous patriotic meetings.
    “The Russian Fear” had befallen on Australia not just once during the whole second half of the XIX century : in 1863, 1870, 1882 and 1885. But the first panic, experienced by the Australians during the Crimean War, was the strongest and most remembered. What kind of form didn’t it take! Some newspapers, for example, discussed quite seriously which city : Sydney or Melbourne , the Russians would attack and what kind of attack it would be: destruction of cities, their occupation or only capture of gold in banks, and also who would carry out the occupation of Australia ; buccaneers, privateers or navy. That or this variant was preferred in connection with the movements of the Russian squadron in the Pacific.
    The panic befell on all strata of the Australian society. J.C. Breillot, the chairman of the Defense Committee dreamed of «emissaries from Russia might even now be here, noting the defenseless state of our harbor”, inhabitants of the coast had “visions of a Russian frigate or steamer, coming… in quest of gold”. At times the panic took a bizarre character : from fears of a drunk from Adelong who was going to commit suicide as he had thought that the Russian had already imprisoned him, to a mass panic in Melbourne on the 7 September 1854, when somebody, having heard explosions of feast crackers, yelled “Russians!”. The news instantly spread all over the town, and soon gallant detachments of volunteers, armed with anything, headed towards the coast, but, of course, found nobody there.

  2. Warren says:

    • kirill says:

      Western freedom. So vaunted yet so fake.

      • Moscow Exile says:

        Even as a youth I used to wonder why “democracy and freedom” was such a clichéd phrase amongst Western politicians, most particularly US ones. When I heard them pontificating so, there sprang to mind the Shakespearian expression: “The lady doth protest too much, methinks!”

        Why did politicians, pundits, journalists, generals – the whole bloody system – feel it necessary to constantly remind us all that we enjoyed freed om and democracy and should be ever on our guard lest it be taken from us?

        I soon began to realize that this adoption of the moral high ground by our mentors was all part of a programme of indoctrination directed not only at us in order to engender our political stultification but also to suggest that there were others much less fortunate than we that yearned for such freedoms and democracy that we were assured we enjoyed – you know the thing: “Be thankful for what you have. Now get back to work!”

        This was the time when a British prime minister once admonished the mob by announcing to them: “You’ve never had it so good”.

        And these moralistic declarations of the existence of a superior world where goodness reigns supreme, where the shining city on the hill is situated, where happy citizens bask in the rays of enlightened government and enjoy the freedoms of choice as regards the ways they may pursue their routes towards individual happiness are also beamed constantly at those that live on the dark side.

        The other day I became acquainted with a 30-something Russian professional, married, no children, well travelled, bourgeois…

        We got talking about our travels and experiences. As usual, she was astounded at the length of time that I had lived here and – this is the one that always gets them! – that not only is my wife Russian, but she also lives here, in Mordor with our three children, who are also Russian all born in Moscow and who don’t particularly wish to live in the UK, though they have all visited that place..

        And then she learnt that I had never visited the USA. “Why not? I find that amazing”, she said in genuine astonishment.

        “Why should I have been there?” I replied.

        “But it is so easy for you to go there if you want to,and everyone wants to go to the USA and live there”, she stated.

        “No they don’t” I answered. “And I never have wanted to do so. Why do you think everyone wants to go and live there?”

        “Because America is the number one country. It’s the best. It’s the best of everything!”

        “What do you mean by ‘best'”, I asked.

        She started to get wary.

        “Is it the freest country in the world, do you think?

        A long pause.

        “Well, there’s so much to see there”, she said. “There’s the Grand Canyon”.

        “That’s true”, I conceded. “but there are also many wonderful works of nature to be seen all over the world – not only in the USA, but here as well”.

        She looked at me as though I were some retard.

        “For example”, I pressed on, “I should very much like to see Lake Baikal”.

        My interlocutor is not a Muscovite. She moved to here over 10 years ago from her home city so as to seek more gainful employment. She is from the city of Irkutsk – on the shores of Lake Baikal, Siberia.

        Her passion for the US, I think, was engendered by her attending a month long English course in San Francisco, which place, I believe, is rather picturesque and whose inhabitants, I am sure, are friendly, civilized folk.

        I think she is one of those Bolotnaya types.

        • kirill says:

          Sounds like a Maidan style idiot. I have zero patience for such people. The USA has a lot of pluses, but the infantile need to puff it up into some sort of Heaven on Earth is just too much. As for where people would want to live. I think most Europeans who have a certain expectation from their societies and government would want to live in Canada.

          Unfortunately Canada has been Americanizing politically for 20 years. The Harper regime is a historic low point for the country.

          • Moscow Exile says:

            As it happens, in my youth Canada was always my first choice whenever I considered the possibility of my emigrating: lakes and forests are my kind of thing. Well, there are plenty of forests and lakes here, so I can’t complain.

            My nephew – he who is in the 20th Armoured Division, now based in Germany – has been to Canada a few times, where he and his chums are allowed to play with their tanks at some place called Suffield.

            It’s on the prairies, I suppose, and, therefore, they can arse around without doing much damage – apart from, that is, the effect that lobbing live rounds all over the show has on the local prairie dogs.

            He told me it’s a bloody awful place – just emptiness. I think Suffield must be one of the last remaining one horse towns in Canada:

            As a designated place in the 2011 Census, Suffield had a population of 264 living in 113 of its 119 total dwellings, a 17.9% change from its 2006 population of 224. With a land area of 0.88 km2 (0.34 sq mi), it had a population density of 300.0/km2 (777/sq mi) in 2011 – Wiki.

            Sounds like a wild place!

            Anyway, apart from the live rounds, it seems that the prairie dogs there also occasionally suffer from the behaviour of some of the Tommies who turn up for manouevres in Alberta.

            Last time my nephew was there, he told me, he was stuck in the middle of nowhere as an observer for his regiment – the Royal Dragoon Guards no less. So he had made his own little hole in the prairie and lived in it whilst suffering endless torment from mosquitoes.

            In his loneliness there, he made friends with a prairie dog, whom he used to feed on pieces of bread that he threw to it. The beast was gradually becoming tame, my nephew told me. And then one day he was joined in his hole by an artillery observer. So early on the first morning after the artilleryman’s arrival, the by that time near tame prairie dog appeared to share breakfast with my nephew when, quick as a flash, the artilleryman flattened my nephew’s little furry friend with a trenching tool.

            “Waddya do that for?’ asked my nephew, trying hard to choke back his tears. “That was my pet prairie dog.”

            “They’re vermin”, came the answer.

            I think that’s a really sad story.


            • colliemum says:

              That is a sad story – but: your nephew is in the Royal Dragoons? Wow! Did he participate in the Trooping the Colour, or will he do so?
              One doesn’t have to be a Royalist, a Colonel Blimp or even a militarist to agree that this is the best military parade in the world, bar none.

              • Moscow Exile says:

                The Royal Dragoon Guards consists largely of Yorkies and Paddies as a result of the amalgamation in 1992 of the 4th/7th Royal Dragoon Guards and the 5th Royal Inniskilling Dragoon Guards, the former being Northern English cavalry regiments, the latter being Irish.

                My nephew, however is a Lancastrian, born and bred, hailing from Salford.

                And he’s a “leftie”.

                He wasn’t pleased with what he saw and experienced when he was in Iraq.

                He was in Poland in October. I told him I’d give him a wave from my firing position if I saw him.


                • dany8538 says:

                  You would really go as far as fighting with the russians against your nephew ? that is pretty impressive.

                • Moscow Exile says:

                  “You would really go as far as fighting with the russians against your nephew ? that is pretty impressive.”

                  Nay, he’d desert rather than shoot at his old uncle, and then we’d both do what good Lancastrians should do: annoy them Yorkies.


            • Jen says:

              The story could have been worse: your nephew might have woken up to the sounds and smell of the prairie dog being stuffed and then roasted by the artilleryman for breakfast.

              In some countries people really do eat these kinds of burrowing rodents like marmots. That’s how bubonic plague outbreaks sometimes happen, because someone kills a marmot in the wild, stuffs it with berries and roasts it on a spit.

              • Jen says:

                Eh? How did the comment end up here? This was in reply to Moscow Exile’s comment about his nephew’s prairie dog pet being hit dead by the artilleryman because it was considered to be vermin.

                Should have added that in parts of Mongolia and the western United States, rodents like marmots and squirrels are vectors for bubonic plague, and cooking the animals doesn’t always kill the bacterium especially if the meat is not well done.

                • cartman says:

                  Your posts still seem to be sinking. Perhaps its your Australian time.

                • Jen says:

                  Could be as Sydney is about 20 hours ahead of Vancouver at this time of year (we have daylight saving now).

                • ThatJ says:

                  I know for sure that the time on your PC/notebook/smartphone is not to blame. This is a blog glitch. It’s rare, but I have seen it before. Did the post that you reply to get deleted?

            • yalensis says:

              That’s a horribly sad story. Prairie dogs are not vermin! Vermin are rodents who attempt to invade, and live inside, human homes. Prairie dogs ARE rodents, granted, but they live outside and are content to dwell in their own homes, which they built themselves, as a complex of underground tunnels and burrows. They do not seek to invade human homes, and never bother humans.

              I have seen prairie dogs while in Texas. They are very cute, and sociable little critters. The soldier who squished one should have been brought up on charges of animal cruelty.
              And then punished by firing squad. IMHO.

              • james says:

                i agree yalensis… people are cruel.. it seems to come with the terrain of working in the military, or at minimum attracts these types of losers.. regarding suffield, alberta – it looks like it isn’t that far from medicine hat, alberta – a fairly nice downtown core, but otherwise on the praires and for anyone who hasn’t spent much time their – a feeling of wide open nowhere-ness to it.. i actually like the praries, but don’t live their myself.. canada has a huge amount of land, but as kirill has pointed out up above – we have been on a downhill slope of americanization with the help of our resident idiot pm..

                • marknesop says:

                  MEGGITT Training Systems Canada, who makes our remote-controlled targets, is headquartered in Medicine Hat. MEGGITT uses Suffield to fly its air targets for testing, and against the Army for live firing. Suffield is intentionally barren except for pronghorn and a few other native animals and birds. It would not make much sense to surround a weapons test range with large cities, like Central Park in the middle of New York.

                  I’ve been to Medicine Hat – and Suffield – a few times on business. Medicine Hat has the world’s largest teepee; bet not too many people know that. Well, Brown Moses does, obviously, he knows everything. But most people wouldn’t know. The town is actually really nice, although I’ve never been there in winter and they say it is…ummm….not at its best at that time of year. It can be a little disconcerting driving on the prairie, though – it’s so flat you can see the mountains behind Calgary when you are still about 100 miles away, whereas the horizon at sea is typically about 12 miles, and it doesn’t get much flatter than the sea. It’s only because the mountains are so high.

                • Moscow Exile says:

                  I should add that my nephew thinks that Canada as a whole is a great place and he told me that he intends to emigrate there when he comes out of the army. He made this decision after his Suffield experience and was allowed to go on furlough. So he hired a car and drove to the Pacific coast, where he was impressed with Vancouver and decided it was the place for him. This was about 7 or 8 years ago if I remember rightly. Since then, however, he decided to sign on for another 12 years in the service of Her Majesty and all the rest in order to defend civilization from Mordor and the Orcs, so he’ll only leave the army when he’s 50-something. I think they promised him that they might make him a “hofficer n’ gen’leman”.

  3. Warren says:

    Russian RT news channel editor-in-chief accuses UK media regulator of censorship

    World November 11, 14:26 UTC+3

    “Just as we have launched our TV channel in Britain, they are threatening to revoke our license upon biased accusations,” says Margarita Simonyan

    MOSCOW, November 11. /TASS/. RT editor-in-chief Margarita Simonyan said on Tuesday accusations by a British media regulator Ofcom of the Russian channel’s biased coverage of Ukraine amount to censorship.

    “Just as we have launched our TV channel in Britain, they are threatening to revoke our license upon biased accusations. Democracy as it is,” Simonyan wrote on her Twitter microblog on Tuesday.

    “They believe our coverage of Ukraine was biased. We have found a ton of examples of the BBC bias on Ukraine and called Ofcom,” she wrote, adding that the only answer was that the regulator does not oversee the BBC.

    RT claims in particular refer to the BBC’s coverage of Ukraine in the first week of March.
    Simonyan said Ofcom has not even concealed that it is pressuring the Russian TV channel to change its editorial policy. “We will not change our editorial policy, despite the pressure,” she said, adding that RT is the only source of alternative information for the British audience.

    The UK communications authority published a bulletin on Monday saying that RT wants “to present the news from a Russian perspective” but all news must be presented with “due impartiality … in particular, when reporting on matters of major political controversy.”
    In late October, RT launched a news channel dedicated for the audience in the United Kingdom in an effort to “challenge dominant power structures in Britain by broadcasting live and original programming with a progressive UK focus.”

    Launched in December 2005, RT’s network now consists of three global news channels broadcasting in English, Spanish and Arabic. RT UK’s sister channel, RT America, airs from a studio based in Washington, DC.


    • colliemum says:

      Well, if Ofcom go there, then we’ll be happy to inundate it with cases of bias in other TV providers.
      It is true that Ofcom doesn’t regulate Al Beeb – but there’s SKY TV, there’s ITV, and their reporting, especially on UK politics, is as “un-biased” as that of Al Beeb.

  4. ThatJ says:

    @et Al

    As for ThatJ’s posts, I mostly ignore them, like Karl’s. It’s bad manners to post such an amount of white trash spam that has little relevance to this blog

    To me, my posts are relevant in so far as they relate to the larger ramifications of the US-led Western world. Whilst you seem to disapprove of the West’s outward aggression, I go further by also opposing its inward aggression. The US-led order is not only affecting Russia or the Middle East, but also Western/European societies themselves, and in a very negative way. I don’t see why I should let this pass by debating only what happens to the outside world, since in many cases both aggressions derive from the same source.

    As far as I can understand it, in the US the jewish vote is used as a tool to attack one side or the other (normally the Republicans attacking the Democrats), i.e. ‘you are betraying not only your own voters, but jews and Israel in general’.

    The Jewish vote in America is basically worthless. It’s a small fraction of the total vote, consisting of less than 3%. What matters, and what the politicians court, is their money and media influence. And although it’s the Christian goyim who mostly support the Israeli hard-right and are important in enabling America’s support for the country to do what it pleases (besides the Jews themselves, regardless of the ‘universal leftist beliefs’ to which a majority of them supposedly subscribe) and make up the GOP’s base, as a bloc the Jews disregard the GOP for the Democrats. The Christian Evangelicals are just too dense to ‘get it’. Meanwhile, TOO is a bit more cynical:

    As Usual, Jews Vote Democrat

    In the 2008 election, an overwhelming 83% of Jews voted for Obama. Since then, the Obama administration has not been sufficiently pro-Israel to satisfy the the pro-ethnic cleansing/apartheid crowd at AIPAC and the Weekly Standard. The empire struck back, organizing “The Emergency Committee for Israel” to try to panic Jewish voters into voting for Republicans.

    It didn’t work. As Eric Alterman notes, Jews split 66 to 31 in favor of Democrats. This is down from the 83% for for Obama, but more in line with traditional patterns. Alterman points to a gap between the leadership and rank and file Jews. To some extent this is true, but explicitly Jewish organizations like the ADL and the Simon Wiesenthal Center and de facto Jewish organizations like the SPLC remain bastions of a multicultural America, closely associated with the political left. And, as Norman Podhoretz points out, citing an academic study, Jews “back Republicans only so long as they adopted the liberal position on ‘such bellwether issues … as immigration, abortion, gay rights and the separation of church and state.’”


    Finally, Alterman quotes a writer who suggests that “Israel-oriented attack campaigns aren’t really aimed at Jewish voters so much as they are aimed at conservative Christians anxious about terrorism and who imagine themselves as having some kind of religious/cultural kinship with Jews.”

    The CNN exit poll found that 78% of Christian Evangelicals voted Republican in the Congressional races—the most lop-sided percentage for any religious group. Nevertheless, the recent pro-Israel campaigns are not likely to have been critical. In 2008, Evangelicals voted 70% Republican in Congressional races. This is less than in the recent election, but surely the increase from 2008-2010 is most likely due to the general Republican surge among all White groups in this election, brought on by disenchantment with Obama and the Democrats. In other words, it is much more likely to be due to the increased racialization of American politics brought on by the reality of the Obama administration than to Bill Kristol fanning the flames of an emergency over Israel.


    Duping the Christian Zionists

    The Forward reports that American Jews still have a very negative view of Christian Zionists (“Jews Cast Wary Eye on Evangelicals“). About 4 in 5 American Jews have unfavorable opinions of the Evangelicals—about the same percentage who voted for Obama in the last election. Indeed, American Jews are far more favorable to Muslims (41.4%) than to Evangelicals.

    So why do approximately 80% of American Jews liberal distrust Evangelicals?

    Rabbi David Saperstein, head of the Reform movement’s Religious Action Center, said that it is not the Christian right’s beliefs on social issues that pose a problem to the Jewish community — it is their attempt to bring those beliefs to the public sphere.

    “The Christian right has a clear agenda for America that it is trying to advance in all levels of American politics, and this has to do with fundamental questions of our existence, such as church and state separation,” Saperstein said. In contrast, Catholics, Mormons and Muslims, as well as Orthodox Jews, have not taken their conservative beliefs beyond their own communities.

    Of course, it’s more than fundamental existential questions. Who knew that homosexual marriage and abortion rights (two of the issues mentioned in the article as dividing liberal Jews and Evangelicals) pose existential threats for Jews? Saperstein concludes that it’s okay for liberal Jews to advocate the their liberal social agenda in the public square. But Conservatives should be restricted to discussing these issues among themselves. I guess the idea is that the ethnic motivations of liberal Jews are just fine, but the religious motives of Christian Evangelicals are illegitimate.


    Bill Clinton: Pioneer in Courting Jewish Money

    The Republican grovelfest continues to reverberate. Philip Weiss compiles a few additions, including an editorial writer from the New York Times (“It’s hard to imagine a political spectacle more loathsome…”. ) The interesting thing is that Weiss includes a quote from David Frum’s book on GW Bush (The Right Man) noting the prominent role of Jews in making Bill Clinton’s wonderful career. This includes Clinton “getting very rich rapidly” right after he left the presidency. (I recall that pretty much the first thing that Clinton did after leaving office was to give a speech to a Jewish audience in LA for $100,000—just a little thank you note, with the promise of much more to come.)

    Sociopathy can be very lucrative, and the recent grovelfest shows that there is no shortage of White politicians willing to do anything for the fame and fortune of the presidency. All they have to do to climb onto the gravy train is to make it very clear that they care nothing about the future of their own people. Clinton’s statement to an audience at Portland State University in 1998 is classic:

    Today, largely because of immigration, there is no majority race in Hawaii or Houston or New York City. Within five years, there will be no majority race in our largest state, California. In a little more than 50 years, there will be no majority race in the United States. No other nation in history has gone through demographic change of this magnitude in so short a time … [These immigrants] are energizing our culture and broadening our vision of the world. They are renewing our most basic values and reminding us all of what it truly means to be American.

    And then there’s this quote from his 1997 State of the Union speech: “My fellow Americans, we must never, ever believe that our diversity is a weakness — it is our greatest strength.” If we believe strongly enough, it will come true, never mind the reality of ethnic conflict throughout human history.

    Here’s David Frum:

    Clinton can fairly be called the most philo-Semitic president in U.S. history. His closest friends and most trusted aides were Jews, his administration was crammed with Jewish appointees, both his nominees to the Supreme Court were Jewish—even his most famous girlfriend was Jewish. And Jews liked Clinton as much as he liked them. They appreciated his intellectuality and his social tolerance, his liberated wife, and his moderate liberalism. Jewish donors contributed generously to Clinton’s election campaigns; after he left office, some of those former donors helped him to grow very rich very rapidly.


    Soros Courts the Neocons

    As reported in the Salon, George Soros has paid $150,000 to Randy Scheunemann, a neocon foreign policy figure. Scheunemann was McCain’s foreign policy adviser during the 2008 campaign and is now a top aide of Sarah Palin.


    I came across Scheunemann in writing an article on the neocons and Russia, where it emerged that he was paid hundreds of thousands of dollars by the government of Georgia to use his influence against Russia, a policy that coincided with Soros’ attitudes. Scheunemann was also President of the Committee for the Liberation of Iraq, sponsored by Bill Kristols’ Project for a New American Century.

    So Soros is much more than the patron saint of the left. Like AIPAC, it pays to play both sides of the aisle in American politics.

    Soros knows full well that Scheunemann has been a reliable partner in promoting Soros’ vision that the former USSR should buy into the suicide cult that has become the Western democracies—a cult that is strongly supported by the organized Jewish community and the Jewish-funded left. (Soros, of course, is a major funder of the left throughout the White world, including, e.g., Moveon.org.) The neocons have a long history of promoting pretty much the entire social agenda of the left, including especially large-scale non-White immigration.


    The Neocons Versus Russia

    The Russian invasion of Georgia following Georgia’s attempt to reestablish its dominance over its secessionist province of South Ossetia has certainly infuriated the neocons. Max Boot and Charles Krauthammer have called for various moves to isolate Russia from the West and from the international economic community. The Weekly Standard has an article by Stuart Koehl urging Georgians to fight on with US aid, and an article by Charlie Szrom of the American Enterprise Institute (aka neocon central) advocating massive US aid and alliances among Eastern European countries.

    We know that neoconservatism is a Jewish movement — the news having finally reached the mainstream media with books like Jacob Heilbrunn’s They Knew They Were Right: The Rise of the Neocons. Now imagine for a moment that you are a typical Jewish neocon — that is, someone who sees the world fundamentally through Zionist lenses and, for starters, cannot fathom any difference between the interests of the United States and Israel. Or, what amounts to the same thing, imagine that you are an Israeli geopolitical strategizer. How would such a person think of the situation?

    Quite clearly, you would be very unhappy that Russia has managed to crush the Georgian military and threaten regime change in Georgia. Israel has strong connections to Georgia. It has provided weapons and training to the Georgian military (although it recently stopped providing weapons after Russian complaints). Israel also has over $1.5 billion invested in Georgia, and Israel is proposing that the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline be extended to the Israeli port of Ashkelon for transshipment to south and east Asia. Two top ministers of the Georgian government are Jews with strong ties to Israel, including Defense Minister Davit Kezerashvili who is a former Israeli fluent in Hebrew.

    The other side of the equation is that neocons have been hostile toward Russia. They supported the war that resulted in independence of Kosovo from Serbia, an ally of Russia. They also support Chechnyan independence from Russia, NATO membership for Eastern European countries formerly dominated by the USSR, and the aggressive US policy of providing missiles to Poland and the Czech Republic.

    Why the neocon hostility toward Russia? We could certainly imagine that if Russia was controlled by the Israel Lobby and Jewish interests in the same way that the United States is, this would not be happening. Indeed, a major neocon complaint is that Russia delayed sanctions against Israel’s arch-enemy Iran and has supplied Iran with nuclear material as well as weaponry designed to protect its nuclear installations.

    Quite simply, we think that neocon hostility stems from the fact that Russia under Vladimir Putin proved to be far more nationalistic than is good for the Jews or for Israel. A landmark event was Putin’s crackdown on the oligarchs — that small, overwhelmingly Jewish group of tycoons that came to control the industrial base of the USSR during the shift to capitalism. The oligarchs pumped huge amounts of money into the campaign to keep Boris Yeltsin in office and enrich themselves. They also supported Putin at first, but Putin gradually cut into the dominance of the oligarchs.

    When in 1996 it appeared that Yeltsin might lose his reelection to the Communists, the oligarchs poured millions into Yeltsin’s campaign and began flooding the television airwaves (which they owned) with pro-Yeltsin “news” items while conspicuously failing to give any airtime to the opposition. With Yeltsin’s victory, the loans-for-shares deal was finalized, catapulting the oligarchs from a small group of millionaires to a small group of billionaires. A few years later the oligarchs “guaranteed” (to use Berezovsky’s term) that Vladimir Putin, like Yeltsin before him, would get elected in Russia’s 2000 Presidential elections.

    A turning point was the arrest and imprisonment of Mikhail Khodorkovsky, the head of Yukos, the oil giant. Arch-neocon Richard Perle led the charge against Putin, calling for the ouster of Russia from the G-8 — the same sort of policy the neocons are proposing in the wake of the invasion of Georgia. Khodorkosky was viewed as without any feeling for Russian nationalism and far too friendly with the United States:

    Khodorkovsky has spent years pursuing what is essentially a personal, pro-American foreign policy, cultivating contacts with the most influential politicians, diplomats, bankers and public relations specialists in Washington — actions the siloviki, a group of hawks in the Kremlin made up of former KGB men, consider reprehensible….

    Compounding this perceived threat are Khodorkovsky’s efforts to endear himself to the White House. One only need look at the people who have rallied to Khodorkovsky’s defense [the article mentions Stuart Eizenstat, Richard Perle, George Soros, and John McCain (!)] to see how the siloviki could make a convincing case to cut Khodorkovsky down to size.

    The crackdown against the oligarchs resulted in agonized complaints about the demise of democracy in Russia, and we are sure to see more such complaints in the wake of the invasion of Georgia. The neocons much preferred a democracy in which the Jewish oligarchs completely controlled the media and could buy large blocs of the Duma — in other words, a democracy that much more resembles our own.

    The fact that Soros and Eizenstat — both associated with the left — also condemned Khodorkovsky’s arrest suggests a Jewish consensus on this issue. Soros was also deeply involved in the so-called Rose Revolution that vaulted Mikheil Saakashvili into the presidency of Georgia.

    Moreover, the most recent ADL document on anti-Semitism in Russia notes that despite better relations between the Russian government and Jews within Russia, there have been no changes in Russia’s foreign policy toward Iran or its policy of engagement with the Palestinian group Hamas. This contrasts with the ADL’s stance early in Vladimir Putin’s presidency when the ADL complained that the Russian leadership did not immediately condemn what the ADL terms “Governor [of Kursk Alexander] Mikhailov’s blatantly anti-Semitic statement.” Mikhailov had expressed his gratitude for the support Putin had given him in his struggle against “filth” — a reference to the previous governor of Kursk, Alexander Rutskoy, Boris Berezovsky, and the All-Russian Jewish Congress. Berezovsky is a former Russian-Jewish media tycoon who used his control of the main television channel to promote Boris Yeltsin for president in 1996 but fled Russia after the ascent of Putin after being charged with fraud. Rutskoy, who is Jewish, was seen as allied with Berezovsky. The ADL complained that the Russian leadership chastised Mikhailov only after a “storm of protest that Mikhailov’s conduct generated among Jews and the mainstream media in Russia and abroad.”

    No wonder Pat Buchanan recently termed democracy a “flickering star” because democratic governments are so often out of touch with the people they rule, whereas governments like China and Russia enjoy overwhelming popular support. This is so on a wide range of issues in the US — immigration policy being the most egregious example. In the area of foreign policy we have seen that a small cabal of neocons could successfully promote US involvement in a costly and disastrous war in Iraq — a war on behalf of Israel and certainly not in the interests of the United States.

    And speaking of democracy, the fact that John McCain came to the defense of Khodorkovsky is yet another indication that he is completely tied into the neocon foreign policy establishment. Just recently it became known that Randy Scheunemann, McCain’s foreign policy adviser, was paid hundreds of thousands of dollars by the government of Georgia. Scheunemann was also President of the Committee for the Liberation of Iraq, sponsored by Bill Kristols’ Project for a New American Century. Kristol, like the other neocons, is eager for the US to stand up to Russia over Georgia: “Is it not true today, as it was in the 1920s and ’30s, that delay and irresolution on the part of the democracies simply invite future threats and graver dangers?” Ah, the old argumentum ad Hitlerum.

    There can be no greater condemnation of American democracy than that John McCain will be the candidate of one of the major parties, while the other party will nominate Barack Obama.

    Finally, we should remember that from 1881 until the fall of the Czar, in addition to dominating the revolutionary movement in Russia, there was a Jewish consensus to use their influence in Europe and America to oppose Russia. This had an effect on a wide range of issues, including the financing of Japan in the Russo-Japanese war of 1905, the abrogation of the American-Russian trade agreement in 1908, and the financing of revolutionaries within Russia by wealthy Jews such as Jacob Schiff.

    The triumph of Bolshevism resulted in a period of Jewish dominance in the Soviet Union and unimaginable horrors for the Russian people. This period of Jewish dominance and its disastrous effects on the Russian people are doubtless not far from the minds of Russia’s current leaders [ThatJ: Does anyone remember Putin stating that the first Soviet government was “mostly Jewish”? Mind you, this statement was made years after this article was written.].

    We can expect a similarly long and persistent Jewish campaign against Russia, waged with all the intensity of the 1881–1917 campaign. In an age of nuclear weapons the stakes are very high for the entire planet.


    • ThatJ says:

      Prof. Kevin MacDonald’s “The Neocons Versus Russia” was written in 2008.

      I can’t help but notice how policies that the neocons failed in implementing back in 2008 they are succeeding today:

      A turning point was the arrest and imprisonment of Mikhail Khodorkovsky, the head of Yukos, the oil giant. Arch-neocon Richard Perle led the charge against Putin, calling for the ouster of Russia from the G-8 — the same sort of policy the neocons are proposing in the wake of the invasion of Georgia.

      Guess what? The idea originally proposed in 2003 of removing Russia from the G-8 didn’t go anywhere, it just took a backseat. In the Russo-Georgian debacle they tried again, but failed. 6 years later, the chance presented itself once more and the neocons leaped on it, only this time they were successful, despite the US having a Democrat as a president. In the articles above, MacDonald explains that the neocons are quite at home in the Democratic party.

      The crackdown against the oligarchs resulted in agonized complaints about the demise of democracy in Russia, and we are sure to see more such complaints in the wake of the invasion of Georgia.

      You tell me… except that now the complaints are louder, the stakes higher, and the country being fought over is Ukraine.

      • marknesop says:

        Russia out of the G-8 can only come out as a western victory if it is also expelled from the G-20, the forum Putin is said to favour over the G-8. And that won’t happen, because the way things are now, several countries would likely drop out as well if the west tried to dump Russia. And the G-8 is going to be sorry it ever did that, mark my words. I did a piece on it back when Asslund was blubbering that Russia should be kicked out because Putin dissed everybody by skipping the G-8 summit, he must have had an orgasm when he heard that it had finally been accomplished.

        But take a look at the G-8’s debt load once the only partner that is not deeply in debt is removed. Then take a look at what the G-20’s economic picture would look like with all the G-7 countries kicked out of it.

  5. Jen says:

    @ Paul, Mark
    MK.ru has obtained a screenshot of a recording of a civilian Russian radar screen in Rostov which shows the course of MH17 (marked in purple) and the radar return of one or two nearby aircraft which do not have their transponders turned on .

    The possibility that the fighter jet/s that shot the Malaysia Airlines Boeing was/were not Ukrainian still stands if the Ukrainian air force is right that none of its jets were in the air near MH17 at the time of shoot-down. The other possibility is that the Ukrainian air force does not fully control its aircraft inventory.

    • marknesop says:

      Or that Kiev was lying, and deliberately shot down a civilian airliner in order to swing European nations to the side of sanctions against Russia. While we’re on the subject, nobody goes to those lengths for freedom or democracy; cold-blooded manipulation of that nature is always for strategic or financial gain.

      I’m still leaning to Kiev having been responsible, for no real reason at this point other than if it had been Benny Kolomoisky and his Merry Men, Porkyshanks would give him up in a second rather than have suspicion fall on Kiev. That’s unless he was advised to keep his perogie-hole shut while there is still a possibility of successfully blaming it on Russia.

      • Southerncross says:

        I have to wonder – if it were proven conclusively that Kiev was responsible for shooting down MH-17, such that everyone from Obama to the idiot Abbott had to admit it publicly and on camera, then what difference would that make?

        Would the politicians who cynically pushed the blame-Russia line suffer for what they did? Would the west finally drop the Ukrainian thug regime and leave it to its fate? Or would they accept some feeble excuse from Kiev – “fog of war, mistaken identities, nobody’s fault really”?

        And even if it were proven that Kiev not only shot down the plane, but did so knowing it to be a civilian airliner, and unleashed a torrent of fabricated evidence to incriminate Russia and rebels while hiding its own guilt – what then? Would even that be enough to torpedo the anti-Russian mania that grips western governments and media alike? Would public outrage force a change at last?

        • Fern says:

          Southerncross, interesting questions. What might, finally, awaken public outrage is the matter of western collusion with Kiev. Let’s assume for the moment that the plane was destroyed by Kiev or pro-Kiev forces. What did the US/EU/NATO know of this operation? They certainly moved very quickly to launch the anti-Russian propaganda blitz once the plane was downed but was this merely exploitation of the disaster or were they involved in the planning of the operation from the get-go?

          Personally, I think the exposure of Kiev as the guilty party could be ‘managed’ in western MSM. There are various ways it could be explained – a group of misguided Ukrainian patriots possibly infiltrated and subverted by agents provocateurs of an unnamed foreign power (as a clue it begins with an ‘R”) or a rogue group within the Ukrainian military of which Poroshenko and Yatsenyuk were completely unaware or a planned attack on a Russian civilian airliner that hit the wrong target – which ‘we’ in the west, of course, deplore but understand the desire for revenge against Russia…..and so on. You only have to look back at the number of articles post-Beslan beginning with “it’s never right to kill children but…..” to realise the west would have no problems in accommodating the destruction of MH17 as long as its role remains concealed.

          • Southerncross says:

            I suppose that would do it, if it could be proven.

            The Ukrainians are careless, violent, impulsive and really, really dumb. Hardly surprising that they left clues to their guilt everywhere.

            NATO may be harder to catch.

          • colliemum says:

            I agree – especially given the increasing manipulation of the MSM, accompanied by the increasing suppression of our voices.
            Don’t forget that for TPTB anything said on blogs or in alternative media, where commenters link to articles coming from “The Enemy”, are overlooked, they do not happen, the facts presented do not exist. If it’s not in the NYT or the Times London, it didn’t happen and thus doesn’t need to be reported. So whatever comes out about MH17 will be swept under the carpet. Putin did it and that’s that. End of story.

          • yalensis says:

            Dear Fern:
            After I learned the tidbit about the new American spy satellite cruising overhead Donetsk (in its pre-determined geosynchronous orbit) at EXACTLY the time that MH17 was shot down; and that this satellite was specialized to detect missile launches…
            Well, that was when I started to develop my own theory that this (the position of the satellite) was not a coincidence.
            Since you can’t change the velocity or position of the satellite (that I know of), then it follows that the downing of the airliner was timed to coincide with the position of the satellite, and not the other way around. (Maybe this was part of a plan to test or calibrate the satellite’s sensors, in addition to serving political aims.)

            If my theory is true, then it follows then MH17 was just unlucky. It was chosen for its timing relative to the satellite. Wrong place, wrong time sort of thing. In other words, no big plot against Malaysian Airlines; and the disappearance of that previous MH was just a coincidence.
            Either theory involves a coincidence, you just have to pick which one is least probable. I think it is more probable that the earlier MH (the one which simply vanished), was the victim of a technical malfunction, flew on autopilot long after everyone was dead, and then crashed somewhere into the ocean. That theory makes sense to me.

            It does NOT make sense to me that the American satellite just HAPPENED to be overhead Donetsk at the precise time this other thing went down, which was clearly NOT an accident.

            • yalensis says:

              my own theory does involve a slight contradiction, admittedly.
              Because the American satellite over Donetsk is supposedly specialized for detecting BUK-type missile launches. Which would imply it was expecting a BUK.
              However, this circle can be squared, if one adopts the sub-theory (which some people believe) that Ukrainian forces launched a BUK at the airliner, the BUK missed, and they finished it off with cannon fire from the fighter jet.
              Or… there was no BUK, and the satellite was fully capable of observing a shoot-down, even though it was specialized to observe ground-to-air missile shots.

              • yalensis says:

                P.S. – I just saw Saker’s article, and he personally believes that a BUK was used to “cue” the fighter jets. This fits my theory, as the American satellite purpose was to record and observe the BUK launch. Possibly to test and calibrate the satellite itself.

                • davidt says:

                  “Cue”- perhaps the Saker just means that the jet’s pilot used the Dome radar of a Buk complex to help him intercept the Boeing. (I suppose one might imagine that the purpose of the satellite was to record a Buk launch and to use such a photograph to incriminate the “rebels”. However, I don’t think that the “satellite” was expecting anything, but did the Ukrainians know that the satellite would be overhead at that time? In any case, I think the Boeing’s destruction is solely a Ukrainian enterprise- if the Americans could “prove” the other side did it, then well and good. The Ukrainian side could be perfectly confident that the Americans were not going to produce evidence that they did it.)

                • marknesop says:

                  It’s possible the radar on a BUK launcher was used to provide positional updates, because most SU-25’s do not have radar and in those that do, it is maximized for ground attack since that is the aircraft’s designed role. But cueing would likely have been by radio link, and would require that the radar on the BUK see both MH-17 and the Ukie plane or planes, in order to vector one onto the other. The radar on the BUK launcher is pretty rudimentary for such a complex task. The main air search radar could have done it, but it would have been a lot simpler to just have Borispol or Dnipro tower coordinate the intercept, and perhaps that’s why the records were seized.

              • et Al says:

                American ICBM detecting satellites, SBIRS (Space-Based Infrared System)* detect the launch plume of a missile (Infra-red wavelength at least) and should have been able to pick up any decent heat signature, certainly any missile launch down to a SAM. These are Seroious pieces of kit and cost at least $1 billion. The overhead satellite is rumored to be an experimental model which I would guess would be one built using commercial of the shelf components (COTS) as doing so is significantly cheaper than low volume, specialist designed military systems. In fact, most weapons systems use COTS where possible. The added advantage is that it is cheaper easier to upgrade.

                * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space-Based_Infrared_System

        • colliemum says:

          Good points!
          From where I sit, the only way public outrage would force a change is when money is involved. People would be angry, but the outlet for that anger – until summer this year – in the online MSM comments sections have been closed to comments on that particular subject, the MH17 tragedy and Ukraine generally. even the Russia- and Putin-baiting articles don’t allow comments any longer.
          However, money matters, and the current saga about the current. new EU President, Mr Juncker, and his shenanigans on providing tax loopholes for corporations in Luxembourg, when he was President there, show that this is the sort of thing that makes people far more angry.
          MH17, Ukraine – that is far away. One’s wallet, which gets more empty by the month thanks to new taxes and regulations, that is close at home, as are the politicians who condoned what happened.
          That is what will lead to change, the rest are simply additional items on the bill to be presented to the establishment.

        • marknesop says:

          I don’t think it would have much effect on the relationship between the west and Russia – the group that despises Russia will never change its mind no matter what happens. But I think it would have a tremendous effect on the west’s campaign to drag Ukraine into the European orbit. It would be recalled that Ukraine had a cover story all ready to go which blamed Russia, and while that would not win Russia much sympathy, if any, it would take all the air out of that “Poor Little Ukraine” balloon. All the talk – and I mean every bit – about the USA supplying weapons to Ukraine would die an immediate death. The EU would drop any remaining plans to integrate Ukraine, and NATO would not mention their name and “bases” again in the same sentence in our lifetimes. Kiev would be left in the extremely interesting situation of having to crawl on its belly like a slug to Russia and beg for forgiveness, having become a global leper, and pray to be taken back on whatever terms were offered. And of course Moscow would take it back, because Putin is first and foremost a pragmatist. The government would be reordered in probably less time than it took to type this sentence, and the fascist nutbags would be looking over their shoulders while they wrote out visa applications.

          I’d say quite a lot would change. Just not the Russia-USA-EU dynamic, because that is well and truly pooched for a generation, and that’s to the good for Russia in my opinion.

      • Jen says:

        That’s assuming Porky Pig does not rely on Ihor K to help prop up his regime somehow. Ihor K might not only be supplying the thugs; his money could be keeping some Banderite govt departments afloat.

    • davidt says:

      Donetsk is a long way from, for example, Poland or Romania for small military planes such as the Su-25 or Mig-29- might even be beyond their range. I read somewhere that “locals” saw military planes take-off from a near-by base, though I don’t think a base was mentioned in the item that I read. (Don’t the hackers point at Kharkov?) According to the Russian military didn’t the Ukrainians have 9 Dome radars active on the 17th? What were they doing? The evidence seems pretty overwhelming that there was a military jet near the Boeing and the Ukrainians must know where it came from and who owned it. I reckon that it was theirs. (Here’s an amusing question: what are the Dutch eventually going to say about the Russian evidence regarding the military jet ? I say they will brazen it out and say the Russians are “mistaken”. That would provide a working definition of “hutzpah”.)

      • kirill says:

        The theory it was a fighter jet flown from outside Ukraine is pure nonsense. But there was talk of the pilot being a NATO one from Poland or elsewhere. I do not see a need for this and I am sure that the regime could find a loyal Banderite idiot to do the job.

        The MH17 case exposes the base nature of western public opinion. If it can be steered by such transparent false flag operations, then it does not take much to whip everyone into another crusade for “defense” via war of aggression. But I should not be surprised considering how the same sort of retarded logic is swallowed in the case of Litvinenko, the 1999 apartment bombing (as a supposed pretext to invade Chechnya even though Chechen warlords invade Russia’s Dagestan Republic) and a slew of other crimes without real motive that the west smears Russia with.

        • marknesop says:

          I don’t think the pilot was a foreigner simply because the Kiev government are so untrustworthy and so abysmally poor at keeping their mouths shut that somebody would be just as likely as not to blab it in the next couple of days. They’re really bad at keeping secrets. Look at that tit who announced that the Dutch preliminary report would prove that Russia was responsible before it was released, which was not only incorrect, but a giveaway that the Dutch were letting the real prime suspects in the crime have an advance read of the document before it was made public.

    • Moscow Exile says:

      A Russia colleague told me about this MK article yesterday afternoon.

      Here is Saker’s comment on the MK story:

      MH17: more proof that the Ukies did it

      Several of the comments to the Saker article ask why Russia is “Holding back”, notwithstanding the fact that they have presented this information re. the radar track. However, one commenter writes:

      Such Great timing for the G20 meeting.
      Get the popcorn ready.

  6. yalensis says:

    Meanwhile, effective today (14 November), Russia has announced a ban on pork from Canada, due to use in the swine of the growth hormone Ractopamine.

    As the photo shows , the Ractopamine causes the pigs to grow HUUUUUUUGE snouts!

    • marknesop says:

      My God – that pig has such a huge snout you can’t even see its face – its head is just snout and ears. Great news for the hot-dog business. This could totally change the domestic pig’s mating habits – how is a boar going to be attracted to the most beautiful sow when he cannot see any of their faces? I guess he will just have to operate the way men do now.

      As a totally unrelated aside, baby pigs are my favourite animal. My oldest daughter shares this porcine adoration fixation – when she was still little and I was away, I used to draw a little pig face on the envelope of all my letters to her, circled by the words, “Pig Power”.

    • Jen says:

      Using numbers supplied by the Hillel Foundation, a Jewish student organisation, make Ron Unz’s figures suspect. The Hillel Foundation numbers might have included students with one parent of Jewish background but not necessarily Jewish in belief. If Unz did not specify clearly what he meant by “Jews”, then his research is slanted by his own and Hillel Foundation’s biases. Depending on what sort of information is asked of it, it would be in the organisation’s interest to inflate its figures or understate them.

  7. colliemum says:

    If you thought Abbott was an idiot in regard to what he said about Putin, do see what our far more idiotic PM,Dave Cameron, has said now:
    Given that Cameron is a consummate PR man, who hasn’t got one original political thought in his head, it is obvious that this is the “considered” opinion of the Whitehall Mandarins, who present the PM and his government minions with their talking points.
    Any bets that some bright spark in Whitehall thought that doing a Tony Abbott would gain Cameron some brownie points.

    • Southerncross says:

      Likely. And he happily accepted the suggestion because weak men are always trying to look strong.

    • ThatJ says:


      [ThatJ: Britain’s elite loves freedom, if you understand freedom as “things we like” — which reminds me someone, just replace “freedom” with “democracy” and the majority here will get it, heh.]

      Internet providers were warned that the Government would force them to remove extremist material, as it emerged that a British hate preacher had influenced the man behind the attack on the Canadian parliament. Senior British executives from Twitter, Google and Facebook were summoned to Downing Street and told to do more to take action to curb the online activities of ‘extremists’ – though the BNP, EDL, SWP, UAF and UKIP were apparently (and mercifully) not mentioned.

      The Daily Telegraph disclosed (24 x) that the Home Office and Crown Prosecution Service were in talks about using court orders to ensure that internet providers such as BT and Virgin immediately remove extremist propaganda. The warning came as it transpired that Britain’s most high-profile radical Islamist preacher, Anjem Choudary, had influenced the loon involved in the Ottawa attack.


      [ThatJ: “We are tolerant, as long as you promote our agenda to your inferiors, or else…”]

      New gummint rules designed to prevent infiltration by Muslim extremists were stopping a Christian primary school from operating in line with its founding principles, the Education Secretary was warned (D. Telegraph, 25 x). The governors of Trinity Christian School in Reading, Berkshire, issued a direct challenge to English Education Secretary Nicky Morgan over the way rules introduced in the wake of the Trojan Horse scandal [about Muesli takeover of Birmingham state schools] were being applied by inspectors.

      Staff at the school, which catered for pupils up to the age of eight, were warned they were failing to meet the new standards which required schools to actively promote “British values” of democracy and tolerance. The headmistress, Jean Dandy, said she was told that she must regularly bring in representatives of other faiths to lead assemblies and lessons in order to demonstrate compliance with the new standards. Staff said were also told they must provide evidence that the school “actively promoted other faiths”.

      They complained that they were also warned they should teach children about the people with protected characteristics under the Equality Act, such as sexuality, and must not teach them that “certain lifestyles [homosexuality] are wrong”.

      {At least Prince Charles could be pleased, for he had long maintained that, when ascending to the throne, he would have to be Defender of All the Faiths. But whether Brits would long tolerate ‘tolerance and democracy’ embracing Muslim violence – let alone Hindu superstition and Buddhist unrealism – remained to be seen.}


      [ThatJ: These ‘great deedless humanitarians’, the liberasts, would probably welcome a prison sentence for PC heresy, though we are not there yet.]

      A popular young British singerine who had performed at the wedding of the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge dressed up as a Red Indian for a song in Hereford (Daily Mail, 7 xi). Distant enough as this would seem from the sensitivities of Sioux clansmen, she was jumped on by all the usual suspects; but they were promptly answered by Tory MP Philip Davies who summed it up thus: ‘As far as I’m concerned, all of these people who are complaining are idiots.’ He dismissed them as ‘Guardian-reading, sandal-wearing, politically correct do-gooders’.


      [ThatJ: The way David Camoron speaks of Russia, often by reading/memorizing the notes from his speechwriters or as advised by his political advisors (whom I wish we knew more about), should make us very worried. Russia’s got the end-game already, and is flexing its muscles and showing off in order to put enough fear in the hearts of her enemies. Independent gentile nations, especially European Christian ones, should know that confronting these people can be very pricey. They see your nation’s government as either composed by shabbos goyim (useful cattle) or potential enemies who should be crushed. They know no neutrality, and push towards this end. As long as Russia continues to play from a defensive position, she will be in disadvantage. Over the years, she will lose a fight here and another there, until the ‘war’ is lost for good.]

      Even as poignant ceremonies in the West [including the most splendid display, Field of Poppies, at the Tower of London, by Patrick Cummings, symbolizing the Empire’s 900K dead in WWI] and Moscow [where WWI uniforms and tanks went on parade] commemorated the 100-year previous outbreak of Europe’s disastrous First World War, the 70-year-previous ABC [American-British-Canadian] D[elivery]-Day landings of the Second World War [Great Patriotic War, to Russians] and the 25-year-previous fall of the Berlin Wall and collapse of Communism [except in Western universities], the West’s good friend Mr Gorbachev [who had a nice psychologist wife] stepped forward from his retirement to warn of a new Cold War.

      Yes, despite the West [including the British Empire] having slowly overcome the horrors resulting from its failure to unite around the Nordic [and, especially, Anglo-Saxon peoples], memories had faded despite ceremonies, and German arrogance [though often justified] and American ignorance [growing daily as Blacks and Hispanics took over] had resulted in provoking Russia into new conflict [in the Ukraine] and into once more joining China [to which it now supplied gas and oil on favourable terms] and undoing all that President Nixon and Henry Kissinger had once achieved.

      One could only thank heaven that Bonnie Scotland was far removed from such geopolitical intra-racial stupidity – if chiefly because it was preoccupied with Celtic vs Anglo intra-racial stupidity of its own….

    • marknesop says:

      Sorry, I was only able to read as far as where he said “We debate our mistakes in public”, before I fell off my chair. Sure you do, Dave. First, it’s not a mistake until you try it and it doesn’t work, and then when that happens you try and cover it up or blame it on someone else. If there’s anything funnier than politicians subscribing to lofty values which simply do not exist in modern democracies, I don’t know what it would be.

      Like other western democracies, the UK only debates government mistakes in public when all efforts to cover them up or blame them on someone or something else have been fruitless.

      • colliemum says:

        And when some government scandal or local government scandal cannot be brushed under the carpet any longer, and the peasants get restless, then there’s the true and trusted method of setting up an Inquiry, led by a Judge called for by the government (very impartial), who then can spend years calling witnesses and writing a report which is usually a whitewash, with perhaps a little rapping of the knuckles of some more unsavoury type. It always costs a bomb – paid for by us peasants – but the solicitors are at least able to earn a crust.

        If there is, for once, a report into a scandal which names names and takes no prisoners, then the government says ‘lessons will be learned’ (which they never are), and the MSM bins the report after one or at most two days of shock-horror reporting.
        Then the minions of a certain party – because those scandal happened under their auspices – tell everybody that it is not good to play political ball with such tragedy, or that it is anyway just a story in some obscure right-wing blogs which nobody takes any notice of any longer.

        Just take the Rotherham scandal …

        However, thanks to the New Media, these scandals are no longer hidden, can no longer be brushed under the carpet, and have a huge impact locally thanks to local bloggers.
        I now believe the effects of a New Media news site such as BreitbartLondon and the plain old word-of-mouth passing on by those who read there are having an increasing effect in what people know and learn. Those sites also work for spreading links of local blogs to a wider, national audience.
        It may astonish the sanctimonious editors of the Westminster MSM, but most of their readers now use their ‘news’ as starting point for scathing attacks elsewhere. The great hordes of the unwashed peasants can no longer be lulled into dumbed-down placidity by the MSM. Too many have woken up.
        It’s actually quite infectious …

  8. Patient Observer,

    “Karl, do you find it as amazing as I do that the Russian basket case economy churns out state or the art (or beyond) technologies in aerospace, nuclear engineering, power generation, heavy industrial production technology, etc.”

    Russian economy is not a basket case economy or a collapsing economy. It is a stagnant economy. It is also an economy which starting level is way lower than in the West. That is why Russia’s growth should be a lot higher than it is in the Western countries.

    If Russia ever wants to catch up the GDP/capita of the Western countries Russian economy must still grow at 6-8% a year for a couple of decades at least. Russia still has a relatively low GDP/capita which means that there is a lot of room for growth. Lack of growth suggests that there is structurally something wrong with the Russian economy.

    I don’t deny that Russia does well in some areas (aerospace, nuclear engineering etc.) but these sectors alone do not offer enough high productive jobs for a large number of people in Russia.

    The GDP/capita in Russia is relatively low because Russian economy is structured in a way that does not produce enough per one worker. Without Oil&Gas and minerals (and all the other natural resources) the GDP/capita would be even a lot lower than it currently is.

    The major task for Russia is to reform their economy in a way that increases the production per one worker in the economy. This requires improving the efficiency and competitiveness in all sectors of the economy. Getting rid of useless/low-productive jobs should be a priority as well. This will be painful and unpopular because it will increase unemployment, but it must be done. Russian non-resource exports must also become competitive in the world markets outside of the nuclear and weapons export too.

    Russia will likely never be an engineering/industrial powerhouse like Germany but Russia has too much room for improvement to settle for the current relatively low level.

    You also said that Russians hold more college degrees as a percentage of population than any other Western country. That may be true, but for some reason Russian businesses have not yet been able to make use of these highly educated people the way they should. The economic success is just not there, yet.

    • marknesop says:

      This seems a fair criticism.

      • Jen says:

        ” … You also said that Russians hold more college degrees as a percentage of population than any other Western country. That may be true, but for some reason Russian businesses have not yet been able to make use of these highly educated people the way they should. The economic success is just not there, yet.”

        Depends on what college and university degrees Russians have. Compared with other countries like the US, isn’t there a higher proportion of Russians who have undergraduate qualifications in technical, scientific and engineering studies? A good proportion of these people will be employed by government directly or indirectly, as in state-owned companies. People who work as civil engineers are more likely to be employed by national and regional government councils and agencies. Likewise people qualified in the pure sciences usually work for the national government or universities in research; if the scientists work in companies, they’re likely to have founded those companies themselves.

        In many Western countries, there is often a strong mismatch between what degrees people take in college and university and what may actually be needed by employers. The UK and Australia have shortages of medical staff such that doctors and nurses needed in the Third World end up working in these two countries instead. I read somewhere that there are probably more Sierra Leonean doctors in the US than in Sierra Leone itself. At one Sydney-based local council where I worked over ten years ago, all the civil engineers were Sri Lankans, Indians and Chinese; if any civil engineering job was advertised, the applications that arrived were from Sri Lankans, Indians and Chinese. Plus think of all the people who study courses like golf course design and management who actually get jobs in that area – probably not too many as golf course design and management companies are more likely to hire ex-golfers to be designers and consultants or the ex-golfers form these companies themselves. I believe Tiger Woods and Greg Norman own companies that design golf courses and they themselves have an active role as designers and consultants.

    • patient observer says:

      My first priority in discussions with you is to euthanize the concept that Russia is doomed due to a damaged genome. Such claims are utterly ridiculous and without the slightest evidence in support. I hope that you have come to realize this.

      I think Western metrics of economic activity are heavily skewed toward factors that have little to do with the physical economy. As indirect proof of this, China is second to the US by Western standard of economic activity yet China has stunningly large leads in the production of steel (8 times more), concrete (26 times!), ammonia (5 times more), electricity (20% more), cars (twice as much) and the list goes on. My estimate is that the Chinese physical economy is three times the size of the US yet its GDP is variously listed as approximately 60% of the US. Based on the forgoing, GDP understates the physical economy by 4-5 times. Applying this correction factor to China suggest its “real” GDP is at least twice the US value.

      Russian metrics related to the physical economy (steel, concrete, sulfuric acid, electricity, ammonia, etc.) suggest its economy is about 80% of the US value yet with 1/2 the population. The US has a much larger service sector (legal, financial, health, etc.) whose value to overall wealth is debatable. For example, an attorney may make $250K/year, 5 times more than an industrial worker but to what degree does the attorney contribute to the overall wealth? The massive deindustrialization of the US has been more than compensated by growth in the service sector resulting substantial GDP growth yet we make less and less THINGS. Something really stinks in US GDP figures.

      Focusing on Russia, it produces approximately (relative to the US), 80% of steel, 80% of sulfuric acid, 88% of concrete, 110% of ammonia, etc. Car production is only 25% of the US yet that likely reflects a very well developed mass transit system rather than a deficit in transportation capacity.

      So, Russia is not really a land of low productive workers but rather a land of workers that produces THINGS and not services with questionable value. Perhaps that is why they can excel in the hard stuff like nuclear engineering and aerospace technologies with a population a small fraction of the US and its economic colonies (Japan, EU, etc.).

      You mentioned that Russia will never be an engineering/technical powerhouse like Germany. I contend that Russia is far and away a stronger engineering/technical leader than Germany in the hard technologies. Germany is good at cars, transportation equipment, chemicals and pretty good in machine tools. They are weak in aerospace, nuclear engineering and military technology (the stuff that separates the men from the boys).

      A few more items – Russia has a very harsh climate and long distances both of which creates a large economic overhead.

      Russia is not living on borrowed money unlike the US. Take away the debt growth in the US and I believe that even its inflated GDP growth would become negative.

      Russia has a huge potential for further growth and they are achieving that potential through a combination of great human capital, political stability, national security and a growing sense of self-reliance.

      Karl, remember that Russia has a population of only 50% of the US and a tiny fraction of the US economic block. Russia is punching well above its weight. The West will continue to stick its head up its economic ass and bray about how its GDP is growing is as it produces less and less.

      • kirill says:

        Germany is a freaking western myth. The vaunted uber tech of WWII was not all that and Germany never made a rocket engine worth mentioning. Sorry but stamped sheet metal conveyances with internal combustion engines are not the defining products of a technological superpower.

        When people extoll beyond reason, the slapping down of their ignorance with facts looks like denigration. Germany has many achievements and should be applauded for them, but some random consumer’s opinion is not worth much.

        The inferior Soviets/Russians produced rocket engine designs that the USA thought were not possible until it saw them during the early 1990s. These engines used stainless steel alloys that were *unique* in the world that could survive high temperature oxygen exposure that comes from ducting the oxidizer through the pumps directly into the combustion chamber. Conventional alloys would burn away.

        You also see the epic rebound in Russia after the 1990s disaster. People seem to think that it was some sort of recession. It was one of the worst depressions in history and should have reduced Russia to rubble. Yet Russia is producing world class missiles of all types. It is at the leading edge of radar technology as well with Gallium Nitride amplifiers. Unlike the USSR, the consumer will not be deprived in modern Russia and the days of awing before western standards of living are fading. This is one of the main reasons the west is going on a crusade against Russia. It is losing it and will lose the rest of the world as an alternative model arises. All the attractions of the west that are used to hoodwink the world are no longer its monopoly.

        • patient observer says:

          Right on. A few more thoughts. Russia is bringing out world class consumer devices but of course they have a huge barrier to overcome in branding and centuries of prejudices carefully nourished by the western media.

          The new YotaPhone with its two screens come to mind. It may do very well in the Chinese as well as the Russian market.

          New Russian car designs look to me to be as state of the art as anything from the US or Europe. Their civil aircraft industry is reviving as well with the promise of breakthrough designs such as blended bodies with ultra wide cabins (three aisles). The new Angara rocket seems to be another masterpiece of technology. As said before, advanced rocketry represents the confluence of virtually every engineering and manufacturing discipline and here Russia is unquestionably number one in the world. I like Mercedes cars but I don’t believe for one second that it represents a great engineering or manufacturing achievement.

          Russia did indeed climb out of an abyss dug by the West and Russians who hate Russia. They climbed out despite the West throwing rocks and pouring boiling oil upon them. As Kirill mentioned, they overcame deprivation far far worse than any economic depression, it was more akin to the effects of a massive military assault in terms of disruption to their economy and social fabric. They not only survived, they kept their independence, dignity and morality. Now the west is pooping its pants.

          Serbia is showing its own resiliency too. One example:

          Russia’s prognosis is very good in my opinion. While the West deals with a crumbling population unable to produce competencies in critical areas (the US secret service and the US nuclear forces come to mind) Russia is enjoying greater capabilities from an increasing effective population.

          • marknesop says:

            In fact, the Yota Phone might just be one of the few exceptions among western biases against Russian products – I remember it won best in show for mobiles at the 2013 International Consumer Electronics Show. I remember it because La Russophobe was on some comment forum or other, mouthing off about the iPhone and how Russians couldn’t make anything so brilliant. After about 10 minutes of research I was able to jam the Yota Phone so far up her ass that she could make a collect call to Abu Dhabi by pressing on her navel, and cement it there by pointing out that the iPhone is designed by Americans but assembled by Chinese.

            • colliemum says:

              Well well well! So I’m looking this Yotaphone up, and it does look nice. That double screen makes huge sense to me. I might even give up my aversion to phones, smart or dumb, and get one. Must do more research, lol!

  9. astabada says:

    Apparently Tarkan Batarishvili is now dead. He’s the Georgian commander of the Islamic State known as the Chechen (al Shishani).

    The deed was carried out by the Syrian Air Force.

  10. Warren says:

    • Moscow Exile says:

      By the way,as regards my nephew serving in a British army armoured division (see above), I sent him a copy of that Tweet posted above by Warren.

      I’ve just got a reply off him:

      That’s good. My peers in the Sgts Mess have started to call me Comrade XXXXXXX. Keep the truth coming!

      (Name deleted by me in the interests of national security.)

  11. New Islamic terrorist gang spreading fear and terror in Moscow. Hopefully the police and law enforcement officers can put and end to this.


    Moscow (AFP) – Russia has been hunting a mysterious gang that has terrorised Moscow motorists in recent months with a series of murders resembling the violent video game Grand Theft Auto.

    The gang — swiftly dubbed the GTA gang by Russian media after the video game that involves scoring points for murders — is believed to have killed some 15 people.
    In the dead of night, the gang members placed metal spikes on roads just outside Moscow to burst the tyres of passing cars, then ruthlessly gunned down their drivers and disappeared.

    The gang calls itself “jaamat” (group in Arabic) and is on a mission to hunt down “infidels,” said the government mouthpiece.

    According to another popular version, the attackers are militants affiliated with Islamists who are using the roads around Moscow as a training ground to prepare to join their cause in Syria or elsewhere.

    Political analyst Alexei Makarkin chalked up the secrecy surrounding the case to its extreme sensitivity.
    “This case is explosive,” Makarkin told AFP. “The authorities will do anything to avoid ethnic clashes.

    • Moscow Exile says:

      This has been going on for months now – at least three. My son told me about it when they first kicked off. No secrecy at all about it.

      This is is the first time I’ve heard these criminals reported as being Muslim fanatics. All the talk here has simply been that they are high on something or other.

      • Jen says:

        There have been reports that ISIS fighters in Syria and Iraq are high on crystal meth which partly explains their psychotic behaviour and the ways in which they kill people (decapitation, crucifixion). If the GTA gang has connections with Syrian rebel militants, then its members might be using crystal meth to psych themselves up into carrying out terrorist acts.

  12. yalensis says:

    This piece from ROSBALT which I would characterize as a “moderate fifth-column” type newspaper, ideology-wise:

    Semen Semenchenko brags that American instructors are training Ukrainian “volunteer” battalions in the Lviv district (town of Zolochev or Zolocheva, not sure which spelling). According to Semenchenko, Americans are training junior officers such as sargeants and unit commanders.

    [yalensis: This jives with another source I read, that new American military doctrine for other countries is all about the junior officer corps.]

    Semenchenko goes on to say that the American-led “model training program” lasts for one and a half months.
    He says they acquired the funding for this program via a grant, and is hopeful that it will be expanded.
    Article goes on to say, that Ukrainian army is preparing for defense of Mariupol, and that sergeants of the Israeli army are training future underground diversionaries. (In the expectation that separatists will take Mariupol.)

    • Moscow Exile says:

      Not sure about the spelling?

      Its “Lvov”!


        • Moscow Exile says:



          Поездка во Львов

          (A Trip to Lvov)

          Много говорится о роли украинских СМИ в зомбировании населения, но умалчивается о влиянии греко-католической церкви на массы. Я зашел на утреннюю службу в первый попавшийся собор и еле выдержал пять минут. Епископ на мове вещал о внешнем враге, пришедшем захватывать территорию Украины, трусливом президенте, сбежавшем в Россию и необходимости брать в руки оружие. Речь епископа походила на предвыборный пропагандистский спич кандидата в нардепы, а не на монолог священнослужителя. Собор был забит до отказа и львовяне разинув рты слушали епископа, воспринимая все сказанное им за чистую монету.

          Much is said about the role of the Ukrainian media on the zombiefied population, but they are also silent about the influence of the Greek Catholic Church during mass. I went to the morning service at the first cathedral I came upon and barely survived five minutes. The bishop talked about an external enemy who had come to seize the territory of the Ukraine; of a cowardly president who had run off to Russia and the need to take up arms. The bishop’s sermon sounded like a pre-election propaganda speech made by a candidate for a parliamentary seat, and not the monologue of a cleric. The cathedral was packed to capacity, and with gaping mouths the Lvov citizens listened to the bishop, taking everything he said at face value.

          No popery!


      • yalensis says:

        I don’t really care about spelling, it doesn’t mean anything to me.
        I like the sound of the Ukrainian language, even though I may not be too crazy about Ukrainians themselves, round about now. But, anyhow, like I said, I do like the sound of the language, that’s why I like to use Ukrainian spellings. If if bugs people, then tough shit!

  13. yalensis says:

    In other military news, some Russian media are speculating that the slain terrorist, Samantha Lewthwaite (aka “The White Widow”) was actually an agent of the British secret service, who was carrying out a secret mission, “on Her Majesty’s Secret Service” in Ukraine.

    [yalensis: To me, this theory makes more sense than the idea that some whacked out female terrorist from Nairobi just up and volunteered to be a sniper in Donbass, even though she didn’t have the appropriate shooting skills.
    Also explains why Brits are being so coy about the news of her death, and why Russians so sly in rubbing it in their faces.]

    • Warren says:


      The MMSI number of the Mistral Vladivostok just changed from 227022600 (France) to 273549920 (Russia). The boat seems to be already officially Russian by now.

      MMSIs are regulated and managed internationally by the International Telecommunications Union in Geneva, Switzerland, just as radio call signs are regulated. The MMSI format and use is documented in Article 19 of the ITU Radio Regulations and ITU-R Recommendation M.585-6, available from the ITU.

      We use this link to track the movements of the boat and as you can see, the French MMSI does not exist anymore, it has been transferred to a Russian MMSI.
      In France, the procedure to get a MMSI is quite straight and you have to have all documents in order to get it.

      The last signal received under the French MMSI was 2014-11-13 08:24, since that, it is not updated. The russian MMSI is updated regularly.

      It looks like the French government lied so much that they did transfer the ownership of the boat as scheduled without a ceremony.

      Or is it another mistake, a HUGE one?

      Update: The system to track the war ship has been turned of at 02:10pm, we are unable to follow her movements by now. She can depart to Russia anytime.


      • marknesop says:

        Great scoop, Warren!! Another victory for Russia, another loss for the U.S. State Department. It seemed very unlikely that NATO would buy them anyway, and that had to have been just desperate last-minute scrabbling, because France would not have made any money that way, they’d just have had to pay it all out again in contract penalties.

        I was totally unaware of this MMSI (probably means Marine Movements Special Identifier, or something like that), that’s pretty slick. The French government were denied their big celebration, but the west is hoping in vain if it thinks there will not be a big one when she arrives at her destination.

      • yalensis says:

        Ha ha! Viva Le Mistral!

  14. http://www.oil-price.net/

    Today WTI Crude Oil dropped by 3% to $74,21 and Brent Crude dropped today by 2,5% to $77,92. It seems that it is possible for the oil price to drop below $70 since Saudis are overproducing due to US request.

    Russia has also cut down its economic forecast due to falling oil prices. Next year Russia expects no growth at all and economy might even go to a recession.

    • Moscow Exile says:

      This article below is within the site linked above, the usual bad-news-for-Russia species that seems to be the poster’s chosen genre:

      Oil Price Fall Threatens US Oil Production

      The sharp oil price fall from $100 last summer to below $80 in just three months will bankrupt small US oil producers who need at least $80 per barrel to be profitable. It’s as shame because the dream of US energy independence may never realize. Meanwhile OPEC producers are seizing this opportunity to keep prices just below $80 and thin out competitors.

      A falling oil price is good for the US consumer and good for the US economy. Transport costs feed into the price of every physical product, so if oil gets cheaper, everything gets cheaper. If the oil price falls too far, however, the USA’s recent fracking boom will come to an end. Forces are at play to end the USA’s projected energy independence and return the country to dependence on the Middle East for its fuel supplies. The USA’s long-term key supplier, Saudi Arabia, doesn’t want to lose grip on its best customer.

    • patient observer says:

      Looks like a game of chicken. Saudi Arabia is doing the bidding of the US for an undisclosed upside while creating the potential for internal social instability. When this weird economic war runs its course, the price of oil can explode as US shale oil producers would have been knocked out as well as other marginal suppliers.

      Low oil prices help China more than anyone else. It would be sporting if China lends a hand to Russia to weather the storm.

      Remember that China holds trillions of dollars whose value depends on keeping the dollar as the global reserve currency. It would seem that its effort to help dedollarize the world’s economy could crush its dollar holdings yet they may have decided that the price is worth paying to obtain bigger goals. They need Russia and the other BRICS in the post-dollar world as their main export markets disappear.

      The US is cashing in its chips and shaking down its allies in what seems to be an economic Armageddon. Desperate times call for desperate measures.

  15. Warren says:

  16. Warren says:

    • Warren says:

    • astabada says:

      So much for the theory of the SU25

    • astabada says:

      Also: here the plane comes from the left of MH17, whereas in the radar traces from the Rostov air control it came from the right…

      • kirill says:

        Someone needs to validate the surface features. They farmland looks like it was never collectivized. So this looks like a fake.

    • Drutten says:

      I highly doubt this is genuine. Just seems too “perfect” to me. More likely somebody pranked Channel 1 and unfotunately they took the bait and will be publicly ridiculed for ages.

      • dany8538 says:

        Don’t worry the western media will be ridiculed for far longer…

      • patient observer says:

        I agree, no condensation trails from the 777 among other things.

        • kirill says:

          They do not have to be there. They form if the relative humidity is high enough and don’t otherwise. On a day like the one in photograph, which BTW is just like the actual day in terms of broken cloud cover, the background RH values are not that high. But there is no universal rule since moisture is being advected everywhere in the tropopause region just like in the rest of the troposphere.

          • patient observer says:

            All true but based on personal observation con trails seem pretty universal about say, 30,000 feet. The distance that they form behind the engines can vary widely. I have seen them begin to form by the end of the aircraft but more typically about 1 plane length.

            The con trails likely form from water vapor in the engine exhaust with local relative humidity having a secondary effect. In other words, simple mixing of the relatively humid engine exhaust with the cold air ought to be enough to create condensation trails regardless of the ambient humidity.

            suggests that the duration of a con trial heavily depends on the local relative humidity so I think that it would be safe to say that con trails always form for high flying jets but their duration can range from very short (seconds) to very long (many minutes).

            • kirill says:

              I have to disagree and strongly. At my cottage I would lounge and watch the airliners at 11 km (their cruising altitude) go by without any contrails in my field of view. Perhaps in the tropics where the aircraft are flying well below the tropopause and the amount of background moisture is high there will be regular contrail formation. But not in middle and high latitudes. at 50N the aircraft is flying above the tropopause. The stratosphere is bone dry but there are filaments of moisture being ventilated in the lowermost layer between the tropopause and 16 km.

              You can see the pattern of RH in the contrail signatures of aircraft from satellite photos:

              Note how you only segments of contrails and the whole path is not covered. The photograph of the MH17 shoot down fake or not covers an area that could easily have had no contrail formation.

              • patient observer says:

                Could the interrupted contrails be signs of varying RH along the flight path with the low RH areas simply resulting in shortened contrails? I agree that RH has a huge effect on condensation trails of all sorts. The power plant cooling tower near my home has a huge steam plume on some days reaching and merging with the cloud cover while on other days the steam plume hardly extends a few hundred feet. Some days the plume dissipates at one altitude only to reform at a higher altitude. Some winter days the plume extends laterally for many miles.

                Perhaps planes with contrails are noticed much more often so I agree that there may be high flying jets without contrails that simply are not noticed by my casual observations. I do still have to state that I have not seem other high flying jets from my window seat without contrails but that is hardly a large sample.

    • et Al says:

      Looks like a Sukhoi 27, which the Ukranians certainly do have. In fact, at Lviv airshow in 2002, a Su-27-UB broke basic airshow rules (you have to fly within a set airspace box, never over the crowd etc.) and crashed, killing 84 spectators*.

      * http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjjsNQ4rCno

      • cartman says:

        It is manipulated. I saw somewhere that someone pulled the picture off of Google Earth.

        • et Al says:

          Yes. Surprisingly convenient. Someone throwing a falseflag cat amongst the pigeons??

          It makes for great entertainment though.

          Despite common belief, not every centimeter of the earth is under observation constantly down to the centimeter.

    • yalensis says:

      Wow! That piece, linked by Warren, deserves a full translation. The text should be read while simultaneously watching the video.

      Channel 1 has obtained a sensational photograph presumably made by a spy-satellite during the final seconds of the flight of the Malaysian Boeing over Ukraine.

      In the lead-up to the Brisbane summit, Prime Minister Abbot threatened to give our president a harsh interrogation about the Boeing. Perhaps this can assist him.

      Back in August, the Russian Federation Union of Engineers published its findings about the possible causes of the catastrophe which then received wide distribution in the media and internet. Experts conducted a detailed analysis of all the then-accessible information from all possible sources; technical research was conducted, and a theory was worked out about the reasons for the crash of the Boeing.

      The conclusion of the experts: the only technically possible version — was that the Malaysian airliner was struck by rocket-cannonfire from another plane. Let us turn our attention to a certain point in the report: the absence of any kind of evidence of an earth-to-air missile launch. The launch of a BUK is a accompanied by a cloud of smoke, a deafening roar, heard for a radius of 10 km, and an inverted trace (of steam) which can be clearly observed in the sky for up to 10 minutes.

      To make a long story short, there was no BUK, there was no ground-to-air launch. In the presence, within the region of the catastrophe, of dozens of professional observers from all sides, not to mention thousands of non-professionals, not one person saw or noted (any BUK launch). However, AIRPLANES were seen and noted. And these clearly were not Russian airplanes. The arguments of the experts have been heard, the report has been published to the internet and translated into English and German.

      “Moreover, we have started to receive tons of information, among which was various material, engineering accounts, and then, just now, on the 12th (of November) we received THIS,” announced the First Vice President of the Russian Federation Union of Engineers Ivan Andrievsky.
      [yalensis: This is the lede. Up until now, the story was burying the lede!]

      “I am fully in agreement with your analysis of the causes of the Boeing crash,” writes a man, who introduces himself as a graduate of MIT, an aviation expert with 20 years experience. The man is named George Bilt. “The Boeing was shot down by a reactive destroyer which was pursuing it. Initially they shot at the crew from cannons, next the cabin was brought down by an air-to-air missile, next the right-hand motor and the ring-hand wing were struck by a heat-seeking rocket.”

      The photograph, on which can clearly be seen the launch of the rocket from under the left-hand wing of the destroyer, was sent (to us) as an email attachment. By all signs of location, relative sizes of the planes, etc., the photo completely corresponds to the circumstances of the catastrophe.

      “What we saw was a photograph taken from orbit, not a very high orbit. These photographs are taken all the time as part of routine surveillance of air and earth space. Based on the coordinates shown on the photograph, we can presume, that the photo was taken by an American or English satellite. We conducted a detailed analysis of this photograph, and could not find any signs of forgery,” Ivan Andrievsky concluded.

      All versions need to be studied, including the fabled BUK version.
      The person who sent us the photograph, on which is clearly shown, how a MIG-29 destroys a passenger Boeing; whoever this person might be; is without doubt a professional. In order to forge (such a photograph), would be required an even greater professionalism, than would be required by access to such information. Gentlemen! If you have such photos; or others — please send them! Let’s all put our cards on the table. Because at the current moment there is every reason to suppose, that state crimes are being committed by those, who destroyed this plane knowingly and cynically. And also by those who possess information but knowingly and cynically, cover up for the criminals.

      Good bye!


  17. cartman says:


  18. Warren says:

  19. ThatJ says:

    Russia To Have SWIFT Alternative By May

    As the West (US and its pressured allies) attempt to ‘isolate’ Russia more and more, the inevitable cornering further and further incentivizes Putin to develop alternatives to the status quo. In the past, western sanctioners have sabre-rattled cutting off Russian from SWIFT – the international inter-bank payment system – as a next step in squeezing the oligarchs into submission (though ‘independent’ SWIFT distanced itself from those calls). Now however, as RT reports, Russia intends to have its own international inter-bank system up and running by May 2015. The Central of Russia says it needs to speed up preparations for its version of SWIFT in case of possible “challenges” from the West. If successful, this would pose a further challenge to the USD’s reign as sanction blowback reverberates once again.


    America’s Next Economic Bonanza: Bigger Butts

    The U.S. booty business is getting a big bump, as AP reports companies are cashing in on growing demand from women seeking the more curvaceous figures of their favorite stars. While Millennials may spend most of their day sitting on their Minaj-esque “big fat butts” playing Kardashian, the business of boosting butts is bursting. From padded panties and gym classes that promise plumper posteriors to the “Brazilian butt lift,” in which fat is sucked from a patient’s stomach, love handles or back and put into their buttocks and hips, French sociologist Jean-Claude Kaufmann says “there’s a trend to show off the buttocks in place of breasts due to the rise of Beyonce,” Jennifer Lopez, and more recently Meghan Trainor. The bottom line – butt lifts and implants are the fastest growing plastic surgery, helping GDP at a cost of $10-13k each.


    Hookers, blow, and now bigger butts benefiting the US economy… you’re welcome.

    However, French sociologist Jean-Claude Kaufmann also suggests economic reasons are at play:

    “In uncertain times, people look for security,” he says. “Men are attracted to women’s hips and the buttocks for security and reassurance. Women respond to this. It’s deeply psychological.”

    And by now it is all too clear the Fed is all about security, reassurance, and confidence.


    NYT: The Demise of the White Democratic Voter

    It has not escaped the notice of political analysts that 72 percent of whites without college degrees — a rough proxy for what we used to call the white working class — believe that “the U.S. economic system generally favors the wealthy.” Or that on Nov. 4, these same men and women voted for Republican House candidates 64-34.

    Similarly, the overwhelmingly white electorates of Alaska, Arkansas, Nebraska and South Dakota voted decisively in referendums to raise the minimum wage while simultaneously voting for Republicans, whose party has adamantly rejected legislation to raise the minimum wage.

    There is an ongoing debate among politicians, political scientists and partisans of both parties over the dismal support of Democratic candidates among whites. Does it result from ideological differences, racial animosity or a perception among many whites that they are excluded from a coalition of minorities, the poor, single women of all races, gays and other previously marginalized constituencies?


    [ThatJ: Reader Sharon Blake chimes in:

    “I come from a Democratic family and have always voted the party ticket until this year when I voted Republican. I am one of millions of U.S. citizens who, for the past 30 years, have held steadfast to our beloved Party while it sold out to big and small business who wanted cheap labor. We watched our country become colonized by Hispanics, our language compromised, jobs lost, schools burdened, while we’re forced to live in “sanctuary” cities and towns, surrounded by people who wantonly break the immigration laws. The Democratic Party became the party of hypocrisy, selling itself as the party of “the people”, just not the party of “the citizens”. We count for nothing. At least the Republicans aren’t claiming to be other than they are.

    This country is such a mess and we citizens want so little. These three decades have brought a tragic downfall to a once great country.”

    TOO commented on this article with one of its own, entitled “Race and the 2014 election”.]

  20. ThatJ says:

    Reuters: Ukraine and Russia take center stage as leaders gather for G20

    (Reuters) – A showdown between Western leaders and Russian President Vladimir Putin is likely at the G20 summit in Australia starting on Saturday, following fresh reports of Russian troops pouring into eastern Ukraine.

    Ukraine has accused Russia of sending soldiers and weapons to help separatist rebels in eastern Ukraine launch a new offensive in a conflict that has killed more than 4,000 people.

    British Prime Minister David Cameron blasted Russia’s actions as unacceptable on Friday, warning that they could draw greater sanctions from the United States and the European Union.

    [ThatJ: Look at this utter ignorant or malicious paragraph by the above piece’s author, Matt Siegel: “There had been some calls in Australia to block Putin from attending the summit given Russia’s actions in Ukraine and the downing of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 by Russian-backed rebels, but the overwhelming consensus was against it.”]


    This Is How Greece Celebrates “Exiting” Its Historic Recession

    Greece – it would appear by this morning’s GDP print – is now the engine of growth for Europe. Despite near-record unemployment, record suicides and poverty, and an increasing number of Greeks doing unpaid work (or in slavery), GDP rose at the fastest rate across the EU… However, it appears, judging by the protests across Athens today, the people did not get the message that the crisis is over… as police resort to tear gas and stun guns.


    And The Fastest Growing Economy In The Eurozone, With 25.9% Unemployment, Is…

    As reported earlier, Germany’s economy (accounting for about 30% of the Eurozone) avoided a recession by the narrowest of seasonally-adjusted margins when somehow, the Eurostat econometricians managed to calculate with laserlike precision that its economy grew by 0.1% in Q3, reversing the contraction from the previous quarter on hopes the Ukraine situation has now stabilized.

    So far so good, but an even more amusing observation arises when looking at which was the fastest growing country in the Euro Area in the third quarter. The answer, courtesy of Eurostat, is that the nation whose GDP rose the most in Q3, surpassing Germany, Finland, the Netherlands, Austria and well, everyone else, was, drumroll…


    Italy Remains In Recession As Germany Avoids Triple-Dip By Smallest Possible Margin

    The key event overnight was the release of European Q3 GDP data, which saw Germany averting a recession by the narrowest of margins when following a -0.2% drop in Q2 economic growth, Germany grew by the smallest amount possible in Q3, or 0.1%, in line with expectations, thus averting two consecutive quarters of decline, the technical definition of a recession.


    ISIS Unveils Its New Gold-Backed Currency To Remove Itself From “The Oppressors’ Money System”

    It appears the rumors are true. Islamic State is set to become the only ‘state’ to back its currency with gold (silver and copper) as it unveils the new coins that will be used in an attempt to solidify its makeshift caliphate. ISIS says the new currency will take the group out of “the oppressors’ money system.”


  21. Moscow Exile says:

    And the Empire of Evil still awits payment for the Ukrainian gas bill:

    Weather, 14th November, 2014

    Two-week forecast

    A nosedive in temperature on 27th of November.

  22. ThatJ says:

    Moscow and Kiev trade accusations; U.S. warns Russia against escalation

    (Reuters) – Moscow and Kiev accused each other on Thursday of violating a ceasefire and the United States warned Russia the West might punish it further for its “military escalation” of the Ukraine crisis.

    Ukraine accused Russia of sending soldiers and weapons to help separatist rebels in eastern Ukraine launch a new offensive in a conflict that has killed more than 4,000 people. Russia warned Kiev that any resumption of hostilities against the separatists would be catastrophic for Ukraine.


    Putin “Prepares For Economic War”, Buys Whopping 55 Tonnes Of Gold In Q3

    Just as China is buying ‘cheap’ oil with both hands and feet, so Russia, according to the latest data from The World Gold Council (WGC) has been buying gold in huge size. Dwarfing the rest of the world’s buying in Q3, Russia added a stunning 55 tonnes to its reserves, as The Telegraph reports, Putin is taking advantage of lower gold prices to pack the vaults of Russia’s central bank with bullion as it prepares for the possibility of a long, drawn-out economic war with the West.


    Russia Is Preparing For A “Catastrophic” Oil Price Collapse

    Vladimir Putin told the state-run TASS news agency that Russia’s economy faces a potential “catastrophic” slump in oil prices, saying, as Bloomberg reports, such a scenario is “entirely possible, and we admit it.” However, Putin reassures that with reserves at more than $400 billion, the country will weather such a turn of events because “we handle our gold and currency reserves and government reserves sparingly.”


    Italy’s Grillo Rages “We Are Not At War With ISIS Or Russia, We Are At War With The ECB”

    Next week, Italy’s Beppe Grillo – the leader of the Italian Five Star Movement – will start collecting signatures with the aim of getting a referendum in Italy on leaving the euro “as soon as possible,” just as was done in 1989. As Grillo tells The BBC in this brief but stunning clip, “we will leave the Euro and bring down this system of bankers, of scum.” With two-thirds of Parliament apparently behind the plan, Grillo exclaims “we are dying, we need a Plan B to this Europe that has become a nightmare – and we are implementing it,” raging that “we are not at war with ISIS or Russia! We are at war with the European Central Bank,” that has stripped us of our sovereignty.


    Sweden says has proof of foreign submarine intrusion in October

    (Reuters) – Sweden has proof that a small foreign submarine was operating illegally in its waters last month, its top military officer said on Friday after a mysterious episode that triggered the country’s biggest military mobilization since the Cold War.

    More than 200 troops, stealth ships and helicopters scoured Baltic waters off the capital Stockholm in October after reports of foreign “underwater activity”, but without finding or bringing to the surface any submarine.


    • marknesop says:

      All going smoothly in Sweden, I see, as the plan for Sweden to abandon its traditional neutrality and join NATO continues apace. Interesting to note that Sweden’s account of penetration by a mysterious submarine of which there is no trace – and if they show that ridiculous photo one more time, now they even imply it shows an object which is doing a speed on one knot, what unbelievable bullshit, how much are we supposed to swallow in the ongoing fear campaign to terrify the public – is compelling to belief, but reams of Russian data including depiction of raw radar video was simply dismissed as not credible. What kind of submarine leaves tracks on the bottom – was Fred Flintstone piloting it?

      A transparent attempt to get the Swedish taxpayers to ante up for all manner of expensive new wartoys, which will probably have to be constructed to a NATO standard for interoperability, in anticipation of Sweden taking its place under the blue and white Aegis. And it will probably succeed.

      I see that “fart” is actually a word in Sweden, I mean an everyday word used in polite conversation. That makes it all worth it.

  23. davidt says:

    Here is a link to the story about the “satellite photograph” capturing the attack of the jet on the Boeing:

    • davidt says:

      The story has been picked up by the UK press, but I sense a set-up. (I wish that Ivan Adrievskiy from the Russian Union of Engineers had kept his opinions to himself for the time being.) If the link doesn’t work, then might be easier to do a Google search- fingers crossed.

      • Paul says:

        The size of the passenger plane is too large relative to the ground for a photograph from the height of a satellite, and the distance from the fighter jet to the passenger jet is unrealistically far. Most likely a fake.

        • davidt says:

          Certainly I am not saying that you are wrong, but if it is so obviously a fake then Ivan Adrievskiy must be pretty stupid for it seems that the Engineers have had the photograph for a couple of days.

          • yalensis says:

            If this is true, then the photograph was first published on the internet on October 15.
            Since the Boeing crash occurred on July 15, I don’t see a problem with the timing!
            It just means that George Bilt is not the source of the photograph, the photograph (if it is authentic and did actually come from some American spy satellite) came from some other leaked source; and by implication, Bilt was not the primary source for the photograph, although he may have seen it online and forwarded it in an email attachment, in order to support his opinion.
            Nowhere in the Andrievsky interview does he explicitly say that Bilt sent him the photograph. He talks about Bilt sending him a letter; and also about “a person” who sent him the photograph.

      • yalensis says:

        If it is a setup, that would mean this MIT fellow, George Bilt, would have sent them fake photos and lured them into publishing; then expose as fakes and laugh at them.

        Or, it could be true, and this could be the real deal from the American satellite that was overhead at the time. George Bilt could be a person of conscience who somehow had access to the satellite photos. Miracles do happen, sometimes.

        (Reading some of the comments in DailyMail, it’s aggravating how some ignoramuses think they are so clever: “Oh, what are the odds that a satellite just happened to be overhead at that very time?” The fact is, an American satellite WAS overhead at just that precise time. Which is so “coincidental” that I developed my own theory that the sacrificial plane was picked based on its timing vis-a-vis the satellite.)

  24. et Al says:

    Here’s Sweden’s proof that there was a minisub via the Garding Spam:


    • colliemum says:

      I cannot help but think that this piccie the Swedes have produced, and reproduced by the grauniad, proves precisely nothing at all. Yes, there’s a track, but when was it made? Where precisely is it? (Yes, yes – bottom of the sea, I know!), and how does this ‘track’ show that it was a Russian baby sub who did it?
      It’s a new fashion of the various governments ever since Maidan to throw satellite or other piccies at the public, claiming they are proof of dastardly Russian doings, which then turn out to have been taken place in the feverish minds of the interpreters only.

      • marknesop says:

        It’s difficult to know what is shown in the photo without an explanation. It does appear to be a track in the seabed rather than the photo of a contact on a display (which I am sure they would not release to the media), but there’s no way to know what made it. Submarines as a general rule do not crawl along the ocean floor, as they are comparatively thin-skinned and it would be an easy matter for a rock to puncture the pressure hull, although they do occasionally rest gently on the bottom if it’s not too deep, so they can shut down non-essential systems and just sit very quietly. It might mark where someone dragged their towed-array sonar cable on the bottom; that happens sometimes, if you’re careless or distracted or misread your chart. It might have been made by the Dutch submarine with whom they were exercising only the week before.

        It just sounds very much like they have been told to make a statement that they found something, and that it is proof. You’re quite right that you can shove anything technological under the nose of the average boob, tell him what it represents, and if it is a choice of seeing it or looking stupid, he will see it. Another priceless propaganda moment which must not be allowed to go to waste by calming everyone. We need the Swedes to be frightened, baffled and outraged so they will commit quickly without thinking too much.

        It’s so hard to know anything any more, because we are not only bombarded with narrative-shaping propaganda on a daily basis, it is becoming more and more common for sources to leak a fake story and then pounce on it and prove it a fake, thereby greatly increasing their credibility in the eyes of the public. This is what the satellite photo of the airplane looks like – a slow pitch to polish Eliot Higgins’ credentials. If you look at the photo of the stock Boeing 777 he fired out via Twitter – and which he discovered with remarkable speed – it does look like the same aircraft, just deliberately blurred to hide its origin. And when it flicks back and forth you can clearly see the original was a Boeing in builder’s livery, with “777” ahead of the Boeing logo, although that appears to have been whited out. It’s no great trick to superimpose them exactly upon one another – the 777’s dimensions are standard and you only have to magnify or reduce one photo to make them appear carbon copies of one another. But the really suspicious thing is the timing – as other sites have pointed out, right on the eve of the G20 summit. It seems tailor-made to create a problem for Putin, and some good news for Poor Little Ukraine as they break open a deliberate and malignant piece of fakery, with the help of their loyal allies and the incredible genius of Brown Moses. StopFake has already been caught at this more than once, leaking a photo and waiting for the rebels or one of their defenders to pick it up, and then leaping upon it to demolish it while crying “See??? You see how they try to smear us!!”

        One thing is growing clearer, though – this is make or break for the USA, and they are in it to win it. They don’t care who gets hurt, and every time someone starts to whine, a furious State Department is on them to lash them back into shape and the appearance of solidarity. This may spell ruin for the European economy, but their American “partners” won’t let them back off. I still don’t think the west is up for a shooting war, unless Russia hands it to them on a silver platter, but the situation is rapidly evolving into a real war in every other sense of the word. The USA has gone too far to back away, and has too much to lose.

        • colliemum says:

          Totally agree.
          Two observations:
          * On the BBC early morning news channel today, they had a long segment about how the G20 leaders will demand Putin stop ‘destabilising’ the Ukraine, garnished with a ‘omigawd’ about warships (didn’t say how many …!) sent by Russia to cruise near Brisbane.
          Well, we’ve talked about this here already, so no need to repeat this.
          Mind – that’s why I like watching the early morning Al Beeb: it invariably gets my blood pressure up, so it’s a great way for me to wake up and get cracking!

          * Regarding the track and the use of such new techniques as propaganda material:
          I believe these things are getting so successful because there are now far too many people – in the media and on the internet as well as in the general population – who have never had a scintilla of proper scientific education. No, I don’t mean everybody must dissect frogs and mice. What I do mean is that too many have never been taught that asking the question “what am I really seeing here, as opposed to what I want to see” is vital for a critical assessment. Furthermore, far too many people now think that if a computer ‘says so’ it must be the truth, not realising that what goes into the computer has been put in by (biased) humans. Thanks to the decades-long ‘climate change’ propaganda it’s now ‘accepted’ that a result spewed out of a computer is actual, factual proof, rather than the result of that programme alone, without correspondence to reality. Here I always love to link to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b240PGCMwV0
          That’s what we’ve lost – that’s what our ‘education’ system has omitted to teach generations of kids and students.
          And that’s why the use of those various propaganda piccies on utube are successful, and are used by governments and their agencies to brainwash the masses.
          It works for them, doesn’t it …

          • et Al says:

            Mind – that’s why I like watching the early morning Al Beeb: it invariably gets my blood pressure up, so it’s a great way for me to wake up and get cracking!


            I think you have stumbled upon a new form of effective, passive exercise! It is genius and I might do the same once I get a new TV. Imagine the legions of couchpotatoes who could be saved from obesity and early on set of diabetes simply by watching the BBC in the morning – the equivalent to a 30 minute work out!

            If only! 😉

            • colliemum says:

              Heh – that’ll only work for those who need to sling a Collie round the park first thing in the morning, for which exercise being fully awake is a must.

        • et Al says:

          I was hoping to see you analysis as an ex-Navy bod

          • et Al says:

            …and I agree. There’s a lot of smoke and mirrors going on and the G20 meet is the stage for the current splatter of ‘proof’.

          • marknesop says:

            Present navy, actually. And my field is above-water warfare, not antisubmarine. But there’s so little to go on even for one of those Awfully Slow Warfare types, as there is no explanation of the photo. You don’t know what the hell you are seeing, it’s like one of those close-up photos of a paper clip so that it looks like a steel girder. It could be a honeybee’s forehead or a fold in your grandmother’s ear.

  25. Warren says:

  26. cartman says:

    More side-by-side comparisons

    CNN shows video of armored vehicles moving in, claiming they are Russian. Below is the video they lifted it from, which shows rebels shooting at the column, which is Ukrainian. Apparently the Ukraine’s own NSDC Council reported their own column was Russian.

  27. ThatJ says:

    In November 2013 – February 2014, Warsaw showed official support for the violent actions of the “urban guerillas” on Maidan. However, Poland’s politicians are somewhat reluctant to let the participants of much less violent riots out of jail in their own capital.

    MOSCOW, November 12 (RIA Novosti) — The recent riots in Poland’s capital Warsaw, where 200 people were arrested and several dozen were wounded, are not being compared in the mainstream Western press with the violent clashes of the so-called Maidan revolution in neighboring Ukraine. The Polish rioters are being presented as mere “hooligans”. However, the tactics and slogans of the so-called “peaceful protesters” in Kiev and Warsaw are very similar. In November 2013 – February 2014, Warsaw officially gave its 100 percent support to the violent actions of the “urban guerillas” on Maidan and blasted former president Viktor Yanukovich for arresting the perpetrators. Oddly enough, Poland’s politicians are somewhat reluctant to let the participants of much less violent riots out of jail in their own capital.

    Even the obnoxious jokes of the participants in the two “protests” were similar. Last winter in Kiev, the rioters warmed themselves up by jumping and chanting “If you don’t jump, you’re a Russian!” In Warsaw, as the daily Gazeta Wyborcza reported, the “independence fans” were chanting “If you don’t jump, you’re a queer!” Racism and hatred for minorities were quite visible in both Kiev and Warsaw [ThatJ: racism and hatred for formerly non-existant racial minorities can be solved by passing racial rights legislation, namely the rights protecting the demographic integrity of the Polish population], but the mainstream press of both Poland and the EU in general preferred to overlook them during the “pro-European” Maidan riots.

    In fact, the Independence Day riots in Poland revealed what a lot of Poles see as the REAL danger to their independence. It isn’t Russia, which the Polish mainstream press tries to demonize, but rather the EU. That was clear from the speech of Juliusz Dzerzawski, one of the march’s organizers, an alternative candidate for the position of mayor of Warsaw from the People’s Movement party. Here is what Dzerzawski had to say about Poland’s former prime minister Donald Tusk, who, thanks to his anti-Russian stance during 2014, was promoted to the position of the president of the European Council (replacing Herman van Rompuy): “The man who did more than anyone else for Poland’s subjugation to Brussels – this man has got a sinecure in Brussels. He is now getting 12 thousand zlotys a month. For him, it was a nice deal, for Poland it wasn’t!” Dzerzawski said, addressing the crowd of 40 thousand people.

    What happened in Warsaw was a mixture of many Polish social phenomena, which the Western press prefers to keep quiet about. There was a Maidan-inspired element, there was crude Polish nationalism, but there was also frustration with the destructive subjugation of the Polish economy to European bureaucracy.

    It is no coincidence that the anti-EU People’s Movement, which was one of the main organizers of the march and which was born out of the Independence March of 2012, is one of the fastest growing parties in Poland, appealing to both young and old people. Janusz Korwin-Mikke, the 72-year-old leader of the Union of Real Politics (one of the factions of the People’s Movement) was elected to the European Parliament as a MEP representing Poland. Korwin-Mikke’s success was the greatest sensation of this election and his anti-EU stance even led to some alarmist articles in the EU press (Korwin-Mikke accuses the EU’s leaders of having a totalitarian mentality and speaks out against the aggressive introduction of “gender politics” in Poland).

    Something is certainly wrong with the EU’s policy towards Poland and especially the EU’s policy towards Ukraine, if violent actions like Tuesday’s march have become possible.

    In a sense, Poland repeated the hypocritical mistakes the United Kingdom made in 2011, when British politicians praised the “Twitter revolution” in Egypt – only to see similar Twitter-organized riots in London in August 2011. When the looters were arrested in London, a lot of them said they did not understand why the British government is punishing them for something that it itself had praised in Egypt.

    Quite expectedly, Gazeta Wyborcza and other Polish mainstream media outlets found a “trace of Moscow” behind the Polish riots. “Polish Ultra-Right Nationalism Is Held on a Leash by the Kremlin Imperialism,” read the headline in Gazeta Wyborcza.

    The statement of the Russian foreign ministry, which denounced the events in Warsaw as a sign of “softness to aggressive nationalism,” – such statements are never taken literally by the mainstream Polish media. The trend of accusing Russia of everything will continue. As always, its consequence will be impunity for absurd anti-Russian statements and conspiracy theories (Zbigniew Girzynski, a Sejm legislator, just recently accused the Polish parliament of having a “pro-Putin majority,” and there are many similarly absurd examples). The second natural consequence stemming from this impunity will be the absence of reforms and lack of discussion on the main issue – Poland’s destructive dependence on the EU and the USA. After all, it is not Russia, but the EU which caps its member countries’ social spending.


  28. ThatJ says:

    Notice how the “US-leaning” (to put it mildly) EU media is completely against nationalism, even though it was nationalism which the US supported in Poland prior to the breakup of the Soviet Union. Now that Polish nationalism already did what it was supposed to do, namely stoke anti-Russian sentiment and make the country look the other way (i.e. West), the shabbos goyim oops fifth column will, as demanded by their US masters, promote new ‘ideal ideas’. None of which are good for the Polish nation or its historic people. Especially that thing more or less important, their very existence, whose defense will become demonized or even a crime (a hate crime we call it in the West).

    The demonization of nationalism in Poland was a matter of when, not if, considering its sponsors, and such is the future of Ukraine — unless the country is kept on balance between the “Anglo”-Zionists and Russia, in which case the West will give its support to the shabbos goyim in Right Sector and other radical groups as long as the useful cattle are needed.

  29. yalensis says:

    And sure enough, Brown Moses is Johnny-on-the-spot, within minutes ready and eager to debunk the story.
    My 2 theories: (1) The images are a fake, planted by ill-wishers so that Brown Moses and his pals could debunk; or (2) The images are not a fake, and Brown Moses is full of shit.

    Okay, so maybe I shouldn’t dive in here, since I know nothing about (1) photography, (2) perspective, (3) aviation, (4) landscapes, or (5) photoshop. But here goes anyhow… a few points…

    (1) So, the images of the landscape must be liften from Yandex, since the features of the land map what is recorded on Yandex maps?? Wouldn’t the features match, because the features tend to match features taken at those particular coordinates??? (what am I missing here?0

    (2) The jet in the picture does not match the jet the drawing?? I say it does!

    (3) Okay, now here we get to the heart of Brown Moses scoffatory attitude. He says that the Russian TV image of the airliner (taken from satellite from the top view) is actually an image of a generic Boeing 777, wearing the generic “Boeing” livery, even with the word “BOEING” stamped on it. (as opposed to the word “malaysia”. Moses says, that the position of the logo does not match where the word “malaysia” would start (just over the wing and then reading left to right towards the cockpit), but it DOES match the (shorter) word “BOEING”.

    Well, I dunno. I stared at the image of the plane, granted I have very poor eyesight. But to me it looks more like an 8-letter logo (very blurry, to be sure) than a 6-letter logo. And it does seem to start right close to the wing. But again, it’s very blurry and I am near-sighted, so I would make a terrible eye-witness.

    (4) Moses gloats that the “fake” was obviously put together by somebody who was so lazy they simply googled “Boeing seen from the top” and pasted in the first image they found on the internet, which was this one. To which one commenter snarkily adds that the forgers sloppily sliced off the ends of the wingtips in copy/paste.

    Well, for starters, the Boeing DOES have sort of blunt-looking wingtips, that look like somebody sliced them off with a knife, so I think that critique is B.S.:

    Secondly, the Boeing in the twitter photo has a longer logo, so they are contradicting themselves when they say the image was taken from the generic livery with just the word “BOEING”.

    In summary, I call B.S. on Brown Moses, I don’t think he refuted anything, at least not yet.

    • yalensis says:

      P.S. here is Moses and his Twitter discussion about the logo issue. Moses is basically saying that the word “malaysia” starts too far to the front of the plane, it should be starting further to the left.
      Judge for yourself. But I can almost just about discern 8 blurry letters in pretty much the right place on the photo. Somebody else with better eyes, please take a look!

      • yalensis says:

        P.P.S. – on this image, the “m” of “malaysia” starts further to the right, over the luggage compartment:

        • marknesop says:

          It might be in slightly different alignments on different models. but in these pictures, it is dead on with the imagery. However, here it is on a 747-400 which is in “standard livery”, and the logo is well back, above the wings rather than forward of the wing root.

          It doesn’t seem a very reliable identification feature to me – here are two Malaysia Airlines 777’s; one of them has the logo well back, over the wings while the other has it much further forward, about where it is in the imagery.

          How stupid would a faker have to be to use a plane whose logo read “Boeing”? Because they only say that until they are sold, unless their buyer paints them with the company logo, and if so they only say “Boeing” until they are delivered. And they don’t say just “Boeing” – the type number is included.

          • davidt says:

            The Saker thinks it is a fake
            The comments on his post are interesting. (I keep wondering why the TV station seemingly went to air so quickly, and I fear that Andrievsky’s ego got in the way.)

            • yalensis says:

              Not everybody thinks it is a fake.
              People who talk about the jet coming in from the “wrong side” might not be taking into account the 3rd dimension! (i.e., this is not a 2-dimensional scenario)
              (and the fact that this photo was allegedly shot from above, by a low-orbiting satellite).

              The fake part is that the TV station obviously took the photo and framed it for the TV show, added graphics, even added a blown-up insert, so that the viewers could see the jet more clearly (otherwise it’s just a dot on the screen).

              The technology is the same as when they are covering the Olympics, and they edit in lines and flags on the swimming pool, so you can tell which athlete is swimming in which lane. The graphics are added in the editing studio, but that doesn’t mean real people aren’t actually swimming!

              • yalensis says:

                P.S. – one of Saker’s commenters thinks it is not necessarily a fake:

                Larchmonter445 said…
                MiG 29 fits the photo.

                A Rumanian Air Force officer first suggested it was a MiG not an SU. Then it has been suggested by other authorities that it was a MiG.

                The photo would have to be shot from a satellite. It is definitely not a normal aerial photo for mapping shot by a plane with film camera or sensor.

                The aspect ratio is not typical square image. So, it is cropped into a rectangle.

                Without seeing an original, and this is clearly a composite to show the insert of the jet fighter, the source camera or sensor is impossible to evaluate.

                The fake potential is high. But I don’t see the obvious mistakes when photoshop is used to insert objects into a scene. The sun angle looks consistent. The MiG is in a hazy, cloudy section compared to the clear sky the MH-17 flies through. The three main elements look consistent.

                It could be from another platform, U2-type, SR-71 or some high flying drone.

                But it is probably from a low orbit satellite. Russia has been putting up some for themselves and other nations this year.

                yalensis: I would only add that the framing story implies the image was leaked from an American satellite, not a Russian one.

                • et Al says:

                  While the Mig-29 & Su-27 look similar, the image looks like it has square wingtips with long oblongs attached. That would match the Su-27 as it has its ESM suite on its wingtips. The Mig-29 doesn’t. Either that or I need glasses.

                • marknesop says:

                  Another commenter in the same forum said the sun was completely wrong for the time of day – late afternoon, locally – when MH-17 was shot down.

              • yalensis says:

                Another commenter on Saker points out that the exact same image as was released by Russian TV yesterday, was originally posted on the internet exactly one month ago (October 15), by an anonymous poster (“Duke”) on Yandex. Here is the link for that:


                Duke’s comment to the image: “The image obtained by mail from enthusiasts Russian Wikileaks, the source is not named. The time on the image, Greenwich mean time corresponds to the time indicated in the data of objective control, presented Minoborony RUSSIA. According to the inscription-the international designations of time, the picture would be with the American satellite or intelligence apparatus. ”

                One possible interpretation: Somebody (maybe “Duke”) got hold of this image and has been trying to peddle it, but nobody was paying any attention, until (he or she) finally got it into the hands of Russian TV. This theory doesn’t speak to whether or not the image is a fake. More than likely (IMHO), it is real, and this person REALLY wanted it to get out to the world. Which they did, in the end.

                • davidt says:

                  @yalensis especially I hope that it is not a fake too, and I find it hard to believe that it is an “obvious fake” though the jet always looked like a Su-27 to my untrained eye. It’s the providence of the photograph that I would concentrate on most. (I notice that the other Russian news services have not given the story much prominence.)
                  Down here in Oz Putin is being hammered in most of the news broadcasts, though it is being reported this morning that he met with Merkel for 3.5 hours last night. I met up with some old school friends yesterday and none had any inkling that a jet might have shot down MH17. I tend to explain Putin as a modern day De Gaulle, and I think people are a receptive to that idea.

                • davidt says:

                  Good God: “provenance”.

  30. Warren says:

  31. Pingback: The Empire doubles down - Occurrences

  32. marknesop says:

    Reference the VLADIVOSTOK, DCNS (“Direction des Constructions Navales”) France – owner of the builder at St. Nazaire – insists that the switch to the Russian symbol is only part of a final test, and does not mean the ship has been handed over to Russia. Putin must be greatly amused; the French are under a microscope, and very soon they will have to commit, or break the contract.

    • yalensis says:

      I am hoping they DON’T hand over the boat. Russia doesn’t need it, and it’s a waste of money.

      • marknesop says:

        It’s irrelevant to me which way it goes, and I imagine to the Russian government as well – they have learned enough from being part of the building and trials cycles that they could probably build it now without French help. But I imagine Putin is amused to see a gormless Russophobe like Hollande caught in such a squeeze. Because what the U.S. State Department is proposing is nothing less than that France donate the ships to NATO – I’m sure NATO would pay the going rate, but France would realize none of the money, because it would have to pay it all out in penalties for breach of contract.

        Consequently it is France that is sweating and tugging at its shirt collar. I will be surprised if Ms. le Pen does not do very much better in the next election.

      • colliemum says:

        It’s always enjoyable to see the Frogs with egg on their faces.


  33. marknesop says:

    And in the oblivious-to-irony department, here we have Anders Asslund – my favourite economist – talking up…what else?? Shock therapy. Don’t think. Just react, and do as Anders says.

    Sure hope they listen to him.

    • et Al says:

      Here’s the current ‘shock therapy’ that should be applied repeatedly to Aslund:

    • yalensis says:

      In a crazy kind of way, I almost agree with Anders.
      In the sense that, the only possible way to save that entity called “Ukraine” as a titular nation-state is to do as Anders say: Turn it (the Western rump statelet) into a tight little fascist dictatorship, one-party system, with massive austerity for the population, and funded with massive international “loans”. But there are a lot of “if”s there, and the chances of success are, I would say, only about one in a hundred.

    • Fern says:

      Amongst the many things Aslund overlooks is that all the countries he praises for their success in implementing austerity programmes were able to export their population surplus to the rest of the EU whereas EU membership for Ukraine is not on the cards anytime soon. It’s a strange economic miracle that’s resulted in demographic free-fall such as experienced by the Baltic countries. That pales, however, by contrast with the really big mammoth in the room – the West just hasn’t got the money to buy Ukraine even if it had the will.

      • marknesop says:

        “That pales, however, by contrast with the really big mammoth in the room – the West just hasn’t got the money to buy Ukraine even if it had the will.”

        Unfortunately for Ukrainians, it continues to pretend it does have both the will and the money, and Ukrainians continue to believe it.

        I saw what you did there, girlfriend. Mammoth, Ukraine? I got it, I’m feelin’ you.

  34. ucgsblog says:

    If someone posted this before, my apologies. Along the lines of “bawww, Russia won’t give Ukraine free gas, ergo it’s really, really, really mean” comes the new hit: “Russia’s bullying France by demanding their product, or their money back!” http://news.yahoo.com/russia-may-claim-damages-france-doesnt-deliver-mistral-100436834.html

    “Prime Minister Manuel Valls said on Friday that France would not be dictated to after an unidentified Russian official was quoted as giving Paris two weeks to deliver the first of two Mistral helicopter carriers or face possible compensation claims.”

    What? Oh wow, I’d love to see Walmart try that logic against their consumers. Or McDonald’s. Or any actual business.

    “Moscow has tried to drive a wedge between Paris and its allies on the issue knowing that failure to deliver the carriers could damage France’s image at a time when it is finalising other military contracts.”

    Yes, failure to honor a military contract might damage France’s image at a time when it’s finalizing other military contracts. This is apparently Russia’s fault! It’s over, Putin won, because, according to the implication of that quote, logic formed a firm alliance with Russia.

    • Fern says:

      Yes, I was very disappointed that Prime Minister Valls didn’t actually explain how one party to a commercial contract seeking to ensure the terms and conditions of the contract are adhered to is equivalent to ‘dictating’ to the other party.

      The lesson of this is very clear and will, no doubt, be taken note of by those members of the ‘international community’ outside the Washington consensus – that the West is a thoroughly unreliable partner in ANY enterprise.

    • marknesop says:

      Thanks for that, UCG!! I started an indignant response, but before I was halfway through it I had decided to write it up as a news article for Russia Insider. Accordingly, it is entitled “Sacre Bleu!! What Is Happening With The MISTRAL Ship VLADIVOSTOK??”. Mind you, that’s just my title, and they don’t always keep it, or they may not publish it at all. I haven’t received a response yet. If it’s not published, I’ll post it here.

  35. Moscow Exile says:

    We’re leading in dealing with Ebola in West Africa and in opposing Russia’s aggression against Ukraine, which is a threat to the world, as we saw in the appalling shoot-down of MH17.”

    Obama, Queensland University, November 15th 2014.

    (Midday, November 15th, 2014, here in Moscow as I write, so that waste of space must have made his speech at Queensland University some 3 or 4 hours ago, because in Queensland now I reckon it’s about 8 o’clock in the evening.)

    • Moscow Exile says:

      Обама пугает весь мир Россией

      Obama uses Russia in order to scare the whole world

      And announces that only the world superpower, the USA, can fight Russia

      The less time there remains for Barack Obama until the completion of his presidential term, the more are his horizons narrowed. Wherever he has appeared and on whatever that is being discussed, Russia remains the centre of his attention. Recently he has added Ebola to his discourse, but there is reason to believe that the epidemic fever is over, and Russia will remain.

      So having arrived in Australia for the “Big Twenty” forum, in his speech before students of the University of Queensland Obama was just unable not to touch upon his sick theme.

      “We have headed efforts of the international community in the fight against the disease caused by the Ebola virus, and against Russian aggression in the Ukraine, which threatens the world, as we have seen in the horrific case of the destruction of a Malaysian Boeing”, said Obama from the podium, adding that the United States is the world’s only superpower capable of resisting Russian aggression”.

      Although Russia has not been undertaking any military actions with its armed forces (at least, no one has yet proved the opposite), at the same time the United States regularly carries out bombing the territories of different countries and subjects them to missile attacks. Indeed, just a few hours before the summit, Russian television released a photo, allegedly taken by a satellite (and either by a British or an American one at that, they said), that was taken at the moment of an attack by a fighter aircraft on a civil airliner. Whether Obama had been informed of this is not known; nevertheless, did not change anything as regards his set of standard stereotypes. It seems that Obama wanted to scare everyone with Russia, leaving them only one alternative, which option was not explicitly discussed: really friendly relations with the U.S. administration.

      However, taking into account features peculiar to the locality, some changes in Obama’s speech appeared, and what he said about the protection of small nations might be considered quite appropriate, if we consider that in Australia, as in the United States, there is little left of the indigenous population after the arrival of colonizers:

      “We believe that nations and peoples have the right to live in peace and security. Any effective security order in Asia should not be based on the division of spheres of influence and not on the bullying of small nations, but on creating alliances for mutual security, international law and the peaceful settlement of disputes”, said the President of the United States. And really, it’s very simple, first, to convert to one’s thinking any small nation (in size and also by other criteria), and then to take care of it and protect it from extinction: the classic Anglo-Saxon recipe.

      However, apart from this part of Obama’s speech, there was another interesting formula, by which the head of the U.S. administration encouraged his allies:

      “I’m here to tell you that American leadership in the Asia-Pacific region will always be a critical aspect of my foreign policy”, said the President of the United States. In the same phrase are combined the expressions “always” and “my foreign policy”. There is not such a long time remaining for President Barack Obama’s foreign policy: that “always” will only last up to the next presidential election.

      TIME WAS

      Obama has compared Russia with Ebola

      The President believes that Moscow’s policy is more dangerous than Islamic terrorists

      Barack Obama, speaking at the 69th session of the UN General Assembly, impressed everyone with his aggressive speech. Rejecting all diplomatic propriety, the American President began to goad Russia. In announcing the main current threats to peace, he attributed to them Moscow’s policy in Europe.

      • Jen says:

        The recent Congressional mid-term elections that saw the Repugnanticans win majorities in both the Senate and the House of Reps will also concentrate O’Bomber’s mind on the military option and goading Russia even more.

      • marknesop says:

        Obama has turned out to be a worse embarrassment to his office than Gee-Dubya. I used to laugh at those photoshopped billboards featuring Bush’s face, with his easy grin and a caption that read, “Miss Me Yet?” which appeared 6 months or so after Obama was elected, but they don’t seem so funny now. We’re not quite to where we should be missing Bush, but indeed Obama is not an improvement over him in any area and he is arguably worse in some.

        And if I hear him say “international law” one more time, I am going to personally send him a photo of one of those burnt-out short-range ballistic missile bodies sticking out of the ground in Donetsk, with the inquiry, “Is this international law enough for you, Ray Charles?” Despite the fact that even CNN acknowledged that Porky was firing ballistic missiles against cities filled with civilians, in what might be described as the textbook definition of “indiscriminate attack”, never a peep from the Harvard Law Review President.

    • Fern says:

      This guy (Obama) cannot open his mouth without a lie tripping out. If any country could be said to have ‘led’ in fighting Ebola it’s Cuba who committed a large number of highly trained and very effective medical personnel to those countries most affected by the disease early in the crisis.

      As for his comments on MH17, well, it’s just another example of the saying that the more times a lie is repeated, the closer it becomes to being accepted as the truth.

  36. Moscow Exile says:

    The Demonization of Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin

    Everything is leading towards it soon being written that in 1963 John Kennedy was murdered by means of 11-year old Pioneer Volodya Putin’s catapult.


    (Take note, Pindosy: the short, friendly form of his name here – one of many such forms – is Volodya and most definitely not “Vlad”!)

  37. Moscow Exile says:

    I know hundreds of ways of dragging a Russian bear out of his den, but not one to drive him back to where he came from. Do not tease the Russian Bear!

    Otto von Bismarck

    • colliemum says:

      The good old Iron Chancellor also said “The secret of politics? Make a good treaty with Russia.”
      He did know a thing or two about politics, didn’t he – as events after he was kicked out by Willy Two show only too clearly.

  38. colliemum says:

    President Putin really does know how to stick it to them!
    Asked about the horribly threatening war ships by Aussie hacks, he said that they were only testing their range in case they needed to do research on Climate Change in the Antarctic.
    That really creased me up, given the fact that a Climate change Professor from Down Under got the Russian research ship they’d hired stuck in Antarctic ice earlier this year …
    Oh, and Madame Merkel is cross with Mr Putin – again:
    from whence the hilarious Putin-quote.

  39. Moscow Exile says:

    “If Russia continues to destabilise Ukraine and we continue to see Russian troops and Russian tanks inside Ukraine, then there’s going to have to be a very different relationship between Britain and Europe on one hand and Russia on the other, and a potential for further sanctions” – Cameron, BBC interview.

    Just keep on repeating the lie!

    • marknesop says:

      Suit yourself, dumpling-cheeks! It’s Europe’s economy which will suffer, and don’t forget that Russia has not yet applied much in the way of sanctions itself. Just agriculture so far, but it could get oh, so much worse. The USA is piling on the pressure now because it senses it has burnt its bridges in Russia and its markets are never coming back. It will take time, but American influence in Russia will be slowly winkled out and eliminated.

  40. Moscow Exile says:

    Vladimir Putin is set to leave the G20 summit early after a tense meeting with David Cameron over Moscow’s actions in Ukraine.

    The Russian president is reportedly planning to leave the summit early on Sunday and miss its official lunch in response to repeated criticism from western leaders.

    The move comes after Tony Abbott, the Australian Prime Minister, threatened to “shirt front” Mr Putin – a form of physical confrontation. Stephen Harper, the Canadian Prime Minister, told Mr Putin: “I guess I’ll shake your hand, but I’ll only have one thing to say to you – get out of the Ukraine”.

    See: Vladimir Putin to leave G20 early after ‘tense’ meeting with David Cameron

    So Call-Me-Dave must have really scared him shitless after all!

    Harper has, however, brought eternal shame upon Canada in his using the definite article before “Ukraine”.

    I mean, goddamit, you don’t say “The Canada”, do you?

    That’s what I’ve been told several times already by the native Ukrainian speaking English grammar police.

    • Moscow Exile says:

      Mr Putin still insists that Russian troops have not crossed the border into the UK, despite evidence to the contrary” says the above linked Telegraph article.

      What evidence?

      • Moscow Exile says:

        Note that the absence of a readers’ comments section to the above linked Telegraph article.

        Telegraph readers are far more critical of that newspaper’s line than are the liberal poseurs of the Grauniad.

        The Telegraph would have got hammered in the comments section for that one above quoted line alone, which is absolutely untrue as regards its claim that there is evidence that Russian troops have crossed the border.

        • colliemum says:

          Too right – the DT editors/reportes would have got hammered into the ground.
          That’s why the new (since the beginning of this year) editorial team have successively shut down the comments facilities at most articles – unless it’s sport or ‘lifestyle’, and that’s why they’re running down the formerly excellent DT Blogs site.
          On top of which they have now hiked up the price for online viewing, from about 1.something quid to 4 quid per month, which now also applies to all ‘Comments’ on their Comments page – these posts used to be free to view.
          So most of us have gone over to BreitbartLondon, many of us because the DT blogs page without James Delingpole was just unbearable. Many other excellent writers have been kicked out from that page, or left ‘voluntarily’.
          We only visit to read Lord Tebbit’s excellent posts, and to give a sound thrashing to the resident political shizophrenic (he can’t make up his mind if he loves Labour or not), Dan Hodges.
          (No, we don’t pay – there are ways around the paywall …)

      • Fern says:

        What!!! Russian troops have moved into the UK??? That’s what this journalist is saying – is he aware that while Ukraine and the UK share the first two letters of their name, they are, in fact, different places?

        • Moscow Exile says:

          Hah! A typo.

          That’s the bloody smart-arse computer “thinking” ahead, I should imagine. I may have inadvertently typed a capital “K” after the capital “U” of “Ukraine” and the computer changed my “UKraine” into “UK” without my noting it.

          Mr Putin still insists that Russian troops have not crossed the border into Ukraine, despite evidence to the contrary. The Prime Minister said that drones should be deployed to monitor the situation on the ground, a move which Mr Putin claimed he supported.

    • Fern says:

      Dimitry Peskov, Putin’s spokesman, has denied this report.

      • colliemum says:

        But he’s Putin’s spokesman, so he is obviously lying, isn’t he, according to the understanding of the world’s finest hacks.

        • Fern says:

          You’re right!!! Stupid of me not to realise Russians are congenitally incapable of truth-telling – along with sobriety. Actually, what Peskov said is that when Putin leaves the G20 depends on his schedule so it’s possible he is leaving early which will be spun as fleeing before the wrath of the mighty West.

          • colliemum says:

            It is of course inconceivable that said hacks would waste time looking into the actual conference schedule where, I’m sure, the comings and goings of the prominent leaders are advertised.

            Must keep the tale of the dastardly Rooshans and that ‘orrible Putin going, mustn’t we, dear hacks?

    • marknesop says:

      Yes, Mr. Harper has made his choice – not that it was ever in doubt – and has thrown in our lot with the United States. I’m disappointed, of course, to see him buy into The Big Lie, because it makes us all look like patsies, like we are too stupid not to be led around by the nose by the western media. But I’m not really surprised. The die was cast long ago, and for Stephen Harper there has never been any partner for Canada but the United States of America. And the more conservative it is, the better he likes it, so he should love the next government.

      He has made his point with those who are important to him.

  41. yalensis says:

    On the front of the disinformation war:
    Seems like Russia’s entire Fifth Column has been roped into harness to help Brown Moses and his pals “debunk” the MH-17 story on Russian Channel 1 TV.

    Slon .ru accuses Channel 1 of publishing a photoshopped fake. Aleksei Ponomarev claims that the entire “satellite image” thing is a photoshopped collage.

    Ilya Varlamov “proves” that the base portion of the collage was taken from an image of Google Earth from 2012. He says the same-shaped cloud appears in both the 2012 image, and the image shown on Channel 1. Maybe that’s true, but I can’t figure out which part of the screen he is talking about. One of the clouds matches, but another doesn’t. (?)
    Rustem Adagamov also chimes in about the cloud , and compares the “fake” with the “crucified child” story from Slav’ansk, which he also derides as a fake, without adducing any evidence to that effect. (Fifth Columnists are going full-steam here, in their zeal to defend Kiev government.)

    Navalny’s old comrade Max Katz also chimes in with his 2-cents worth , repeating Brown Moses musings on the livery, and surmising that the fogerer took the image of the airliner from Google, after googling, “image of Boeing from the topside”.

    And speaking of Navalny, even he chimes in. Not being a technical expert, he doesn’t have much to contribute, but, always willing, he does what little he can. Navalny’s contribution to the debate is to smear Ivan Andrievsky of the Russian Federation Union of Engineers, by pointing out that he (Andrievsky) is more of a financial than a technical expert.

    Could be a case of “the lady doth protest too much” – all this chorus of Fifth Columnists debunking the story, and all congratulating themselves how clever they are.
    Makes me think, all the more, that maybe the story is true. Because the truth is usually the exact opposite of what those guys say!

    • yalensis says:

      P.S. – and not to beat a dead horse, but the Fifth Columnists are beating their own dead horse, but bringing up the “crucified child” story again; and comparing it to the “satellite Boeing” image story. (Both stories shown on “pro-Kremlin proganda channel 1”.)

      As for the crucified child story, not one of these Fifth Columnists has ever proved that it was a lie, yet they continue to call it a lie and a fake, as if that was an accepted reality. (Well, among their clique, it obviously IS an accepted reality; they also believe that Jen Psaki tells the truth every time.)

      Here is what the ROSBALT piece has to say, mockingly, about the “crucified child” story, once again not omitting to take an extraneous potshot at the Donbass refugee who brought that atrocity to the world’s attention:

      Отметим, ранее российские федеральные каналы неоднократно уличали в публикации недостоверных данных о конфликте на Украине. Наибольший резонанс из материалов “Первого канала” имел сюжет о якобы распятом украинскими силовиками в Славянске мальчике. Никаких подтверждений этой истории в Славянске журналистам обнаружить не удалось, при этом выяснилось, что женщина, рассказавшая о распятом мальчике, страдает расстройством психики.
      Подробнее: http://www.rosbalt.ru/blogs/2014/11/15/1338018.html

      Note that earlier, Russian Federal channels were numerous times caught in the act of publishing false information about the conflict in Ukraine. The greatest resonance came from the materials of Channel 1 when they pubished the story about the supposed crucifixion by Ukrainian soldiers of a boy in Slavyansk. Journalists in Slavyansk could not find a single person to confirm this story, and then it turned out that the woman who told the story, suffers from a mental illness.

      (1) ONE journalist (whose ideological sympathies are pro-Kiev) went to Slavyansk, and could not find anybody among the dozen or so people whom he interviewed in the public square (in front of Right Sektor handlers) to confirm that they personally witnessed the crucifixion of a child.
      (2) who has “proved” that the woman in question (=the eye witness) is mentally ill? Does somebody have her medical record, or her diagnosis sheet somewhere??

      It is broad, ideology-based allegations like these which make me think that BOTH stories are true. Both the crucifixion AND the Boeing satellite image! (although my logical brain tells me that one of the other, or both, could also be false, but either way, somebody must present some actual facts, not just insinuations and assertions)

      • marknesop says:

        Completely forgotten in the blizzard of self-righteous, bilious bullshit is that pro-Ukraine activists tried to pass off a blurry graphic from the video game “Flaming Cliffs 2” as evidence of the Russian-launched SA-11 missile which – in their version – smashed MH-17 out of the sky. This was acknowledged as a fake by the most pro-Ukie sites; quite a good take-down, actually, including the apparently-forgotten tidbit that satellites do not record video – they take still photos, so that snap which purports to show a missile trail coming from the smaller plane would have to be exquisitely timed, and it is all the more doubtful as satellites typically take long-exposure shots as well. I certainly don’t remember a great public hue and cry over that, though; in fact, it was very much a case of “nothing to see here, move on”.

        But this latest fake – which I believe it to be, it’s just too pat, as I believe Drutten stated at the outset – is shaping up to be not a PR disaster at all. Russia did not endorse it (except for the unfortunate engineers), while it has gotten everyone talking about the incident again when the west plainly means to investigate until everyone has forgotten about it, then quietly drop it.

    • marknesop says:

      It speaks differently to me, and suggests all the more strongly that it was a bait story put out there for the Russians to grab on to, whereupon the “protest community” and its pet weapons expert would come out with guns a’blazin’. Suddenly, everyone is an intelligence analyst.

      The British government will probably knight Brown Moses, completing the journey to total farce as a computer nerd who can’t hold a job and sits around in his shitknicks all day playing World of Warcraft takes his place amongst the Lords and Ladies. Arise, Sir Wrathion.

  42. Fern says:

    Here’s an interesting hypothetical exercise. Imagine that 43 students had disappeared in Russia after protesting the government. Imagine that most people believed the students had been murdered. Imagine that a mass grave had been found but after forensic tests, it was determined the bodies it contained were not those of the missing students – jeez, how many unfound mass graves are there in this country?. Imagine a regional governor in Russia and his wife arrested and accused of kidnapping and murdering the students.

    Imagine all of this. Now ask yourself, in such circumstances, what would be the probability of Russia being welcomed at the G20? What would be the likelihood of the media remaining silent about this situation when covering Russia’s attendance at the G20? I’d guess zero probability. When you’re Mexico and not Russia, it’s a different world.

    • patient observer says:

      I agree but would add a few nuances. In Russia if the victims were killed by Muslim terrorists, there would be hardly a whisper of revulsion from the lips of western media. If they were western liberasts, the gates of media hell would open and Russia would sent to the penalty box.

      With some further tweaking, the value of human life monograph discussed a few blogs back can become a useful predictor of MSM behavior in such matters. One improvement would be to differentiate Russia lives. The lowest of the low would be Russian soldiers and the highest of the high in the Russian subset would be westernphile wearing blue jeans and strumming guitars singing American music who are also Jewish and educated in the USA or UK.

      • Moscow Exile says:

        “If they were western liberasts, the gates of media hell would open..”

        Yeah, like that drunkard Bolotnaya protester actor who died the other week and the liberals started whinging that Putin had ordered him liquidated because of his having been an outspoken critic of the regime blah blah blah…

        Now what was his name?

        Does anyone remember?

        Do any of the the oh-so-liberal bleating liberals in the West remember?

  43. colliemum says:

    You might enjoy the ‘robust’ comments here on the report of Cameron’s ‘robust’ encounter with Putin, who thereupon leaves, ahem, early.

    • ThatJ says:

      A reader commented:

      Putin should have confronted that filthy traitorous bastard by telling him to stop the genocide of the Indigenous Britons.

      And he should have done it in public, with stats, numbers and facts.

      David Cameron is a genocidal piece of shit.

      Pointing to the violation of the demographic integrity of Great Britain does indeed sound like a good argument.

      • colliemum says:

        It was actually Tony Blair and NuLabour who started this. One of his advisers came out with the remark that Blair wanted to rub the noses of the Tories in diversity, and see to it that there would be no Tory government ever again. The name of that advisor was Neather. Look it up.
        It was brushed under the carpet by the metro-elites in the MSM, naturally.
        But since Cameron declared himself the be the ‘heir to Blair’, it’s not surprising that there were/are no changes.

      • Putin should not think about British demographics too much. If you think about the thing cynically it would be good for Russia (and good for the whole non-western world) if Britain was “overrun” by third world immigrants. Never stop your enemy from making a mistake.

  44. Moscow Exile says:

    This is what was said between Hunter and the Evil One according to Lenta.ru:

    Путин ответил на требование Харпера вывести войска с Украины

    Putin has responded to Harper’s demand that he withdraw troops from the Ukraine

    Russian President Vladimir Putin reacted to Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper’s statement, which demanded that Moscow withdraw its troops from Ukrainian territory. As reported to “Interfax” by spokesman for the Russian leader, Dmitry Peskov: “The President replied that, unfortunately, this cannot be done, because we are not there”.

    According to Peskov, Putin and Harper, who are participating in the G20 summit taking place in Australia, briefly spoke and greeted each other.

    According to Fox News, during the handshake at the summit Harper demanded that Russia “leave the Ukraine”.

    • Moscow Exile says:

      From the revamped RIA Novosti site, now called Sputnik International:

      Putin: Western Sanctions Against Russian Banks Can Affect Ukraine’s Economy

      A.Mercouris is there as well:

      Kiev’s Refusal to Negotiate Elections in Donbas Threatens More Conflict

      Doesn’t look too bad a set up.

      I think it’s RIA Novosti. I clicked my RIA Novosti and arrived at Sputnik. If you recall, RIA Novosti was run down a few months ago as the result of yet another Putin “crackdown” on the media.


    • ThatJ says:

      The elephant in the room was not mentioned. But the names alone should be enough for the cynics: Irving Kristol, Robert Kagan, Victoria Nuland, Leon Trotsky.

      I also disagree with this:

      And this is quite interesting, concerning that, on the one hand, the US is still rejecting all the leftist ideas of the 20th century, regarding them as communist or dangerous left-wing revolutionary ideas

      Whilst the Trotskyite-turned neocons gave up on economic communism (read: the working class), they still take Trotsky’s social venom to heart. To be more precise, I think that the social aspects have always been more important to Trotskyites than the economy. That the American New Left (Trotskyites) gave up on the working class for considering it too reactionary and embraced minority classes instead is a testimony to the veracity of this belief.

      The interviewer sounds like he has more knowledge about this subject than the interviewed. Look at this question:

      Mr. Trotsky used to say that real revolutionaries are located in the Wall Street. Which might imply that he is pointing to the financial companies and financial system. Now, we see that the EU financial system of governance is drawing a lot of criticism from inside the EU and Hungary is the latest example. So, do you think that the situation we have witnessed in Ukraine might be somehow extrapolated to the EU and the old world at large?

      Trotsky knew too well about where the nest of the “real revolutionaries” lie, because that’s where his funds originated from. That the capitalist par excellence, namely the banking dynasties, would fund a communist revolution sounds bizarre at first, but then again, they were able to topple the Czar but not to control the outcome of the revolution, since Stalin eventually outsmarted them.

  45. colliemum says:

    Oh noes!
    The dastardly Rooshans have declared an innocent German female diplomat ‘persona non grata’ and sent her home!
    Worse – this is a retaliation on germany sending a Russian spy, ahem, diplomat, back to Moscow, after their secret service had observed him spying.
    Apparently, in previous cases, Russia did not ‘retaliate’, but now she does, and the German Foreign Office is puzzled as to why. After all, such politics of needle pricks ain’t conducive to good diplomacy!
    Read all about it:

    • marknesop says:

      Here it is in English, including a few related tidbits such as the report that Putin and Merkel spoke for 3 hours on the sidelines of the G20 summit. Nothing resolved, I’m sure, she is such a wet end. But here’s the part that interested me most:

      Mr. Putin earlier lashed out at the West in an interview with German public television. In the interview, which was recorded on Thursday in Vladivostok, Russia, and published in excerpts on Saturday, Mr. Putin warned of a Russian response if Ukraine used force against separatists in the east.

      “You want the Ukrainian government to exterminate everyone there, including political opponents and adversaries,” Mr. Putin said, according to a German translation of his remarks. “We do not want this and we will not let it happen.”

      You listening, Karl? Coupled with the Ukrainian government’s taking a page from the USA’s economic warfare book and trying the economic strangling of Novorossiya on for size, that might be the statement you were looking for. I am sure Russia will take economic steps to help the region, but it now actually does look like it is going to break away from Ukraine and be recognized as some kind of distinct entity, which I never thought would happen and still think Putin never wanted to happen.

      • ThatJ says:

        This is huge, I’m surprised that his statements were not reported anywhere else. Are you sure this source is reliable?

        • Moscow Exile says:

          Of course there won’t have been any reports of this anywhere else but here, where news of it broke yesterday:

          Порошенко подписал указ об экономической блокаде Донбасса

          Poroshenko has signed a decree to economically blockade the Donbas

          The Ukraine wants to condemn Novorossiya to hunger and penury

          And don’t forget folks! Those Eastern Provinces are still part of the Ukraine – according to those shits in Kiev!

          Imagine what O’Bummer would say if the Madrid government issued a similar decree about Catalonia, which is part of Spain, though many in that Spanish region argue that it isn’t.

        • marknesop says:

          A record of the speech will be available in the Russian press; I’ll look for one in English.

          Yeah…here it is. And a pretty reliable source, if I say it myself. I see from the actual speech – rather than ARD’s translation, that Herr Putin and I are much of the same mind on the subject of international law, as well;

          Today there is fighting in eastern Ukraine. The Ukrainian central authorities have sent the armed forces there and they even use ballistic missiles. Does anybody speak about it? Not a single word. And what does it mean? What does it tell us? This points to the fact, that you want the Ukrainian central authorities to annihilate everyone there, all of their political foes and opponents. Is that what you want? We certainly don’t. And we won’t let it happen.

  46. patient observer says:

    Can you hear me now?
    They are using light planes to spy on cell phone users, next drones for saturation surveillance. I wonder why they need this information? Preparing for mass unrest?

    BTW, Sputnik news could be a great resource – hoping for the best.

    • Moscow Exile says:

      Hear you loud and clear.

      Roger wilco.

      Over and out.


    • et Al says:

      Pah! The Americans are Johnny come latelys. The British secret service setup fake cell phone towers in Wales to intercept all microwave transmissions between Ireland/northern Ireland to the UK ages ago. That is why burner phones (one use only) are used by the criminal fraternity. Each phone has a unique hardware ID – IMEI number – as does each sim card. For android phones, I’ve read that there is software that can change the IMEI but I have no idea whether this is an urban myth or not. Smart crims use dumb phones/candy bar phones as they are much cheaper than fancy smartphones, the latter a a gold mine for intelligence services and allow them to build a nice profile of the user.

      There was also a story in the tech press this last month about fake cell phone towers in Florida that are not associated with any carriers. Florida is a criminal haven to fly in drugs and other stuff from the Carribbean etc. so it make sense that the Feds have targeted it, though they leave some alone as they are anti-Cuba.

  47. Moscow Exile says:

    Саркози: Франция должна сдержать слово и обеспечить поставки “Мистралей”

    Sarkozy: France must keep her word and deliver Mistral

    France must keep her word and ensure the delivery of helicopter carrier “Mistral” to Russia. This position was expressed by the former President of the Republic, Nicolas Sarkozy, according to TASS.

    “Russia is a partner of France”, said Sarkozy during his speech in front of those of like mind and party colleagues at Olney-sous-Bois: “France must keep her word as per the Mistral contract”.

    • Jen says:

      Sarkozy is preparing for a bid for the presidency in another few years and must be eyeing Marine le Pen’s constituency. Coincidentally or not, Sarkozy’s family background is Hungarian so I presume it would be to his electoral advantage to support Viktor Orban’s government and its policies and programs to attract French voters who are disenchanted with Hollande and who envy Hungary’s stance.

      • marknesop says:

        I completely agree; Sarkozy cannot face having to get a job, and would love to get back into a political position where he could just award himself a higher salary whenever he felt like it. If you were looking for a president (ex-president, now) who has a taste for expensive watches, Sarkozy would muscle Putin out of the frame pretty quickly. I did not see his fair-weather statement (he has nothing to lose by it, whereas if Hollande cancels the sale and the whole thing turns to shit in his hands, Sarkozy will look like a prophet) as courting le Pen’s likely voters, but you’re probably exactly right about that, too.

    • I have a hunch that Sarkozy would be singing a different tone if he was still the president of France.

      A few days ago we also saw a German chancellor defend Russia with strong words. An ex-chancellor that is.

      • marknesop says:

        You are right; Sarkozy is only saying what he thinks he can safely say to weaken the present government without incurring any backlash himself. What is significant, however, is that he believes enough of the electorate feels the same way that he feels safe to publicly take that position.

        Still, if Sarkozy were to somehow regain the leadership, he would have France snugged up tight again with NATO and his American friends faster than you could say “Il fait beau”. He might be courting le Pen’s voters, but his actual political philosophy is nothing like le Pen’s. Those who want France out of the EU would make a big mistake listening to Sarkozy.

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